CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Scotrail Class 156 (Shotts Line) Refurb but not fixed

(14 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by Tulyar
  • Latest reply from Mandopicker101

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  1. Tulyar
    Member

    The daft and dangerous system for hanging bikes up by the back wheel on these trains could easily have people forced to lift a bike (12-19Kg) entirely off the floor with the weight and means of lifting, often on a moving train, and not in line with the hook, outside the envelope set by the HSC Manual Handling Regulations - any injury might well trigger action linked to Section 3 HSAWA 1974 concerning the duty of care towards non-employees.

    With the handlebars then on bikes which can swing around freely (a detail enhanced by the poor design) at knee level, we also have the greater potential for bashing legs, and laddering tights.

    The problem is worsened by the poor design of a single bolt fixing with no 'second point of location' (a second bolt, a dowel pin, or a registration face), and the hooks keep coming loose as these clips show.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/36670736885/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/36501187142/in/datetaken/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/35835679514/in/datetaken/

    Those using the Shotts, East Kilbride, Stranraer, and Dumfries services might want to check the trains thay catch to see the extent of loose hooks around the fleet.

    Note that the hooks fitted to Cross Country and Virgin Class 220/221 trains are equally useless aned I worry that the illustrations of the Scotrail HST have exactly the same kit fitted in equally inaccessible cupboards where bikes have to be lifted with 'straight' arms, which requires strong arms and a decent body mass to counterbalance the weight of the bike - I cannot lift a 19Kg Glasgow Hire bike on to the hook in a Voyager and I weigh in at just over 100Kg, am 2 metres tall and am fairly fit - imagine a more typical 1.7m adult weighing 60-80 Kg and you might get the picture.

    As many used to moving bikes around in shops and confined spaces, it is easy to flip a bike vertical on its back wheel by pulling back & up on the handlbars whilst nudging the back wheel away from you, and then wheeling the bike around on its back wheel. Try doing the same with the front wheel!

    Even for vertical hanging on a hook it is not necessary to actually lift a bike off the floor, and a properly designed bike storage arrangement with vertical bikes can be delivered with the weight of the bike keeping it secure and firmly in place, with front wheel on a hook and rear wheel located in a vestigal ramp that guides the bike up on to the hook, and then allows it to roll back a short distance.

    A clever trick with the hook and side plates in a design used since the late 1980s uses the weight of the bike in any position from vertical to almost both wheels on the floor to secure a bike without the need for straps or clips. if only more train builders would use them.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. Ed1
    Member

    I like those trains always glad to see its a 156. I like the way they can take 6 bikes and its a dedicated bike space not a wheel chair, buggy or spare folding seat. Even when the train is very busy can always get bike on as no seats and enough space for 6 bikes.

    I don't normally hang my bike almost never but if lots of bikes I do as can get 6 bikes in.
    Some of the other trains can only take 1 bike in the bike box.

    Most people seem to be able to hang their bike as most people hang up the bike. I have also hung mine by the front wheel before when I broke my arm it lack mobility for a while.

    Even if no one hangs can get 4 bikes in easy.

    As a second point of location think your meant to use the straps never done that when hung my bike, the hooks may be loose from wear but don't know if that means there any where near catastrophic failure. Even if the hooks did break and the bike fell, would probably not result in injury as no people in the bike area most of the time.

    To get to the train have to negotiated the lack of track/ platform barriers the large gap, possibly some bigger health and safety issues than the hooks. In Fauldhouse have to take bike up and down step stairs as no lift, when full loaded a bit of a strain could see some scope for health and safety issues, the same in some of the other stations on the shots line.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Most people seem to be able to hang their bike

    Herein lies the problem. It's public transport and by design should be as accessible to all as is possible. For a small but not insignificant number of people, the bicycle is a mobility aid.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. gembo
    Member

    I find it easier to hang the bike by the front wheel on these trains.. I did once see a guy with a degenerative condition crawl into the apple pie bakery Carnwath. He had switched from normal road bike to mixte to step through electric bike as his condition worsened. He drove a car from Falkirk over to south lanarkshires for a cycle. So agreed there might be someone who takes a bike around but can't lift a bike. Personally, I like the hooks, allows more bikes on and when train busy people can stand beside the bikes. Even buggies can be accommodated.. Still I am all for progress. Next Friday for example I need to gauge whether I will get bike on Stirling train if I cycle to Edinburgh park (unlikely), Haymarket (maybe) or Waverley (likely)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    I don't like hooks in carriages - and I'm above average height and have enough strength to deal with them.

    Hanging bikes by the rear wheel is crazy and I don't understand why the rail business thinks it's a good idea.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. gembo
    Member

    Is it not just very old rolling stock on a back woods line? Never seen hooks anywhere else?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    East Coast 125s.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    West Highland Line (look for Laidback's tales of woe with officious guard).

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    Seems likely on 'next gen' rolling stock too.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. gembo
    Member

    Oh yeah, forgot about west highland, same rolling stock. Also 125 but only two or three hooks there?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    Three.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. gembo
    Member

    Three but sometimes parcels in the way reducing the number of bikes? I prefer the big guard an with the Sheffield stands that take about 8 or so bikes on the east coast line?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. Ed1
    Member

    On the 156 can take 4 bikes without hanging, I have taken the train 100s of time and hung my bike less than 10 times. The trains 158 can often only take 2 bikes. If someone has mobility issues and cant hang then would not hang.

    On the 156 can get 4 bikes without hanging, 2 more than other train and 6 with hanging. So you get 4 cyclists with mobility issues 2 more than the other train and 6 bikes in total. A bus can only take 2 wheel chairs and 50 non-disabled. There is not equal provision for those with mobility issues on buses planes . The train can take 4 bikes non hanging.
    In respect to provision for mobility issues this is better than almost any other transporter, the 156 caters as well as any other train for cyclists with mobility issues. When I had my broken arm I found it far easier to place my bike in 156 than put in box or lift under the low bar on the 158.
    At peak times on shots line scot rail run 156 most cyclists that use the train possibly prefer it anecdotal but when speaking at platform or on train people seem to prefer the 156 as means will get on and don’t need to hold bike all journey. Although it does seem opinion is divided on the 156 on CCE I think most cyclists that use the train prefer it to the other class of trains even those that don’t normally hang such as myself.

    I would guess that people that use the 156 like it, the first time got on it in 2014 I did have my doubts seeing those hooks, but when use it all the time don’t use the hooks and on the rare occasions do don’t find nearly as much of an issue as waiting for the next train. I find it harder putting bike in that box if 2 bikes in the box a night mare as have to stretch lift worse lifting exercise than the hook.

    The 156 also unlike the 158 (or almost any other train)keeps bike separate. On trains where bikes are stored next other, I have had broken spoke, derailleur bent, brake calliper snapped off. Even other likeable trains like the class 170 that takes plenty bikes , still can break a spoke.

    As well as having great bike space the class 156 has low seats so can see better in carriage opening windows to get fresh air does not have those annoying internal electric doors.

    If used the train with box many days would never get on. I have used never in 100s of journeys not been able to get on a 156 at 845 weekdays mornings.

    I would agree that trains that have to hang such as 221 are dismal and the class 800 a disappointment.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. Mandopicker101
    Member

    As a regular traveller on the Cross Country service between Edinburgh and Glasgow, I hate the shower cubicles they call cycle storage. Only the significant facing of traveling XC compared to Scotrail makes me use them. Spaces are too small and leads to bikes being forced in. There's no credible means of securing the lower half of your bike so it swings merrily into the side of the cubicle, battering itself as it goes. Often these spaces are filled with luggage or even just rubbish.

    The lengthy list of what your can't take on board sets a tone of 'Cyclists, just gonnae go away?'.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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