CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

LEZs

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  1. ejstubbs
    Member

    @chdot: the hardest hit will be poorer people who can least afford to change them

    To quote from the consultation:

    Support Grants

    To support adaptation to the LEZ, support funds are available for those most in need and located within 20km (12 miles) of the Zone:

    - small businesses, sole traders
    - members of low-income households

    The funds, provided by the Scottish Government and delivered by the Energy Savings Trust, encourage the certified disposal of non-compliant vehicles and provides vouchers to be used towards more sustainable forms of transport.

    Other sustainable travel grants and loans are available to support the shift towards more sustainable transport, including e-bike and electric vehicle loans.

    Were you aware of the LEZ support funds for small businesses and low-income households that are available?

    ...

    Were you aware of other sustainable travel grants and loans that are available?

    I presume that Mr McLennan's shamefaced answer to these two questions would be "no", then.

    The active travel lobby will make sure its voice is heard

    How very dare it.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    “McLennan's shamefaced“

    Pretty much!

    Posted 2 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    A different Tory councillor (not Edinburgh).

    “

    I was actually surprised to find out just how much work goes on behind the scenes with every enquiry and was very pleased to learn that the officers want what we want – they just have the trickier job of knowing the ins and outs, rules and regulations.

    “

    https://www.helensburghadvertiser.co.uk/news/19403370.opinion---council-officials-want-things-do/

    Posted 2 years ago #

  4. Stickman
    Member

    Cole-Hamilton back to his gas-mask wearing persona.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/snp-u-turn-on-protecting-edinburghs-people-from-deadly-air-pollution-is-a-disgrace-alex-cole-hamilton-msp-3290180

    Funny he didn’t show such bravery in supporting difficult and possibly unpopular choices before the May election. Now he’s safely in to a position of opposition and no responsibility for the next five years he feels free to say what he wants.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    That’s such a bizarre article ESPECIALLY in the context of all the things he’s said in the recent past.

    (Not clear what he is in favour of…)

    Posted 2 years ago #

  6. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    ACH is in favour of 1) what people shout about the most
    and 2) opposite of what other parties want to do

    He is one of these politicians that talk a very good game but deliver nothing meaningful.

    Sorry to all you Lib Dems out there but I think his recent conduct speaks for itself and is shameful.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  7. MediumDave
    Member

    Gas mask man on the make

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-57996717

    Posted 2 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-low-emission-zone-fears-over-lack-of-enforcement-cameras-3387360

    Posted 2 years ago #

  9. jonty
    Member

    Urgh. The biggest risk in ANPR coverage not being total is the political one in my view. If you don't go for the congestion charge/toll style total enforcement, you end up with speed camera-style enforcement where there's political pressure to give drivers a 'fair chance' to avoid capture. I would be concerned that if this is established as the norm, going to full enforcement for any other scheme could be challenging whereas even a Glasgow-style strategy would establish a much stronger precedent.

    How much is effective mobile enforcement going to cost versus just putting in the camera sites (assuming the answer isn't '£0 after the first few weeks, cos we won't bother').

    And surely the 'rat run' camera avoidance risk is obvious?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    What an utter farce. Ludicrously cowardly to make the LEZ so small too.

    This is really just an exercise in greenwashing. Implemented in bad faith.

    I really am beginning to despair about the ineptitude of local government in this city where transport is concerned. Just dreadful.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  11. neddie
    Member

    Yep, and they keep resurfacing roads back exactly as they were. 7-lanes again for Lothian Rd. Wide, flared, difficult-to-cross junctions on Panmure Pl (and a very very minor road)

    Sack the whole "roads dept" and the whole "signals dept". And replace the same number of staff into the under-resourced active travel team

    Posted 2 years ago #

  12. Morningsider
    Member

    LEZs will make almost no difference to anything - by the time enforcement begins (June 2024) a petrol car would need to be over 18 years old and a diesel car over nine years to be excluded from the zone. The only people the zone may affect are the small minority of poor folk who are tied into car ownership (e.g. jobs in out of town locations inaccessible by bus, bike or rail) who cannot afford to ditch their old clunker.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  13. acsimpson
    Member

    @morningsider. Exactly my thoughts. It claims to be agreed policy but is so pathetically weak that it just hurts a very small number of people who society should be helping.

    Having said that only keeping 16 entrances to the EZ might be an appropriate number. Don't have mobile cameras on the rest, simply shut them.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  14. MediumDave
    Member

    It's rather difficult to buy new vehicles at the moment which might explain the very late start to enforcement. One would hope that the chip shortage will long sorted by 2024!

    A group I'm involved with has exactly this problem - we need to replace our ancient and non-compliant minibus (for LEZ and other reasons) but cannot because nobody has any suitable vehicles to sell. We've been trying for many months now :/

    Despite this we are fully supportive of the LEZ.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  15. jonty
    Member

    Yeah - the vibe I got from the latest consultation was that they've basically decided that there will be barely any non-compliant vehicles around by the time the zone actually comes in so it's almost just a paper scaremongering exercise at this point. Of course, plenty of money will still be spent on the scrappage scheme...

    To me it feels like councils are missing the opportunity to set out a long term plan, with hard dates, for gradually tightening emissions (and vehicle size/weight/design) restrictions in the whole city area. Some of this could be aspirational and be a challenge to the government to actually grant the powers required. But presumably it's more electorally palatable to allow the "but I didn't know!!!" debate to repeat constantly every time we decide to make entirely predictable restrictions on the kind of vehicles allowed in the city.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-council-unveils-final-plans-for-low-emission-zone-3426466

    Posted 2 years ago #

  17. gembo
    Member

    low Emission Postage Stamp?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The cost of the infrastructure for the scheme is being met by the Scottish Government, which is contributing £1,045,000 this financial year.

    But the council report on the LEZ said there remained a "substantial funding gap”, which transport convener Lesley Macinnes said was the estimated £400,000 per year running costs.

    “

    ?????!

    Posted 2 years ago #

  19. gembo
    Member

    Signs, emission detectors, Enforcement? Digital capture? Or BS?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    “Signs“

    No doubt.

    Cameras?

    Running costs seem high.

    Value for money??

    CEC get to keep any fines?

    Many vehicles able to breach emission limits by implementation day.

    Many likely to?

    Road pricing more useful(?)

    Posted 2 years ago #

  21. gembo
    Member

    Two year amnesty

    Likely extension?

    See Also gas boilers

    Posted 2 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburghs-low-emission-zone-plan-for-city-centre-ban-on-worst-polluting-vehicles-could-hit-air-quality-in-other-city-streets-3428509

    Yeah “could”.

    Maybe just need less traffic overall.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  23. Arellcat
    Moderator

    chipwrapper.com/news/edinburgh-council-unveils-final-plans-for-low-emission-zone-3426466

    In my heavily annotated 1984 Bartholomew map of Edinburgh, I drew the boundary of the proposed congestion charging zone that preceded the referendum in 2004-ish. That boundary, while slightly differently described depending which report of the time you read, is however substantially the same as the LEZ.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  24. gembo
    Member

    Inner congestion zone.

    The people of Balerno were outraged they were outside the outer zone, meant they had to pay to get to the bypass

    Any boundary displaces the park and ride/walk to that boundary.?

    What is the parking like around Marchmont these days?

    EEN concern regards the emissions elsewhere is touching, they appear to be arguing for a wider zone?

    I like that I only get five free stories before being asked to sign up. This lets me know I have read enough EEN rubbish for the week

    Posted 2 years ago #

  25. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo, "I like that I only get five free stories before being asked to sign up. This lets me know I have read enough EEN rubbish for the week"

    There's always archive.is if you need more nonsense...

    Posted 2 years ago #

  26. MediumDave
    Member

    Or just delete their cookies.

    Posted 2 years ago #

  27. acsimpson
    Member

    Or use incognito/private mode

    Posted 2 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    “

    “So we've got a tiny zone restricting a tiny number of vehicles. Meanwhile, across the rest of city, not least St John's Road in Corstorphine and a lot of the west side of Edinburgh, we will still have high levels of air pollution.”

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburghs-low-emission-zone-foe-scotland-say-its-too-small-and-will-only-benefit-wealthy-residents-and-tourists-3430059

    Posted 2 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburghs-low-emission-zone-thrown-into-chaos-after-committee-refuses-to-back-scheme-3433716

    Posted 2 years ago #

  30. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    “I will stop
    I will stop at nothing
    Say the right things
    When electioneering
    I trust I can rely on your vote
    When I go forwards, you go backwards
    And somewhere we will meet
    When I go forwards, you go backwards
    And somewhere we will meet
    Ha, ha, ha”

    Greenwood / O'Brien / Greenwood / Selway / Yorke

    Posted 2 years ago #

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