CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Silverknowes Roundabout - Danger Alert

(155 posts)
  • Started 6 years ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from Harts Cyclery

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1234…6

  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    This used to be a route for long vehicles but is no longer used, the long vehicle could not negotiate the roundabout and the strip was there to allow them over it instead of round. This route is no longer used and the strip serves no purpose anymore.

    This was specifically for the extra long vehicles from Bruce Peebles works at East Pilton carrying electrical transformers to the docks for export. Some of them even went the whole way by road. Very. Slowly.

    e.g. from Edinphoto;

    And a whole fascinating set on Flick here; https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/5518389504

    Posted 6 years ago #

  2. ih
    Member

    Good email @Harts. If that's a hasty response, I'd be terrified to receive one of your 'considered' replies.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  3. davidsonsdave
    Member

    "There is no room on the South side of the roundabout to introduce this due to residential properties and on the North side we would have issues with land acquisitions."

    Can somebody please explain this to me as if I am a 4 year old?

    Why is there no room when there is a ruddy great big oversized circle in the middle of this roundabout?

    I'm fairly sure you could turn a bus inside that circle itself.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  4. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    I pointed that out in my email (see page 2) @davidson. Got encouraging responses from Lang and MacInnes about acting swiftly to do something and prevent this shambles in future.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  5. davidsonsdave
    Member

    Also the reason why there is low pedestrian footfall on the Lauriston Farm Road, is that you would have to be out-of-your-mind-bonkers-in-the-nut to attempt to cross the road there being that it is a blind corner and you can't see the fast oncoming traffic and they cannot see you.

    When I first moved to the area, I found myself trying to cross Lauriston Farm Road at this point as it is on a natural desire line when walking down Silverknowes Road heading to the beach. I quickly learned that it is incredibly dangerous to do so which is why nobody walks that way.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  6. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Exactly, I also point this out:

    Further, the whole point is that we are meant to be encouraging walking and cycling. We don't do this by designing out walking and cycling infrastructure because of seemingly low demand - that simply reinforces bad travel choices.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  7. davidsonsdave
    Member

    @harts Sorry missed those. Great response!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  8. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    No worries!

    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. The councillors contacted have clearly got the message.

    I was saying to HankChief, if this were a corporation (it used to be...) and the board was consistently getting nagged due to poor practice from employees, the Chief Exec would walk into the office concerned and say "STOP! Nothing else gets built until we make sure you're applying Council policy properly."

    Let's see if that happens...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  9. sallyhinch
    Member

    I can see how, if you're resurfacing the road anyway and it costs nothing, that advisory cycle lanes along straight stretches as long as they're wide enough and there's no parking on them, will be better than a poke in the eye with a stick. But cycle lanes around roundabouts are a no-no, and this is pretty clear in Cycling by Design.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    "Got encouraging responses from Lang and MacInnes about acting swiftly to do something and prevent this shambles in future."

    NO

    The red lanes have to be stopped on this!

    "But cycle lanes around roundabouts are a no-no, and this is pretty clear in Cycling by Design."

    Clear...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  11. handcyclist
    Member

    I regularly cycle here, mainly down the hill from D Mains and either straight on to the foreshore or right onto the dual carriageway.
    I find it a particularly dangerous roundabout as visibility is poor to check for traffic arriving from the right and I can't see anything in these plans to change that.
    If this goes ahead I can't see myself changing the way I ride this roundabout - taking the lane and getting eye contact with any approaching drivers. I definitely won't be skulking around the edge of the roundabout in any marked lane!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  12. HankChief
    Member

    Lesley Mcinnes has responded on Twitter

    "@davidfkeySNP and I meeting officials tom'w am to discuss why this occurred and options to sort it plus wider issues re dev't of infra 1/3

    Will be establishing what possibilities for change lie in this 14 week construction programme - focussed on right, not easy solution 2/3

    Fully intend re-establishing Active Forum but taking a fresh look at form and outcomes. Next date not yet fixed but soon, I hope 3/3"

    Posted 6 years ago #

  13. HankChief
    Member

    The Active Travel Forum comments relate to a point made that we have a ready panel of engaged and passionate active travellers which could be a resource to assist CEC with getting designs right.

    I always felt the Active Travel Forum was underutilized during the last administration.

    Whether it is the ATF or some other group* something needs to be done to feed into designs.

    *it should be acknowledged that Spokes do a fantastic job of responding to consultations and planning application**

    **where they know about them

    Posted 6 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "focussed on right, not easy solution"

    Good to read!

    Hard to do in this case probably apart from NO RED CHIPS.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    "Fully intend re-establishing Active Forum but taking a fresh look at form and outcomes."

    Item 1: Revisit ATAP!(?)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  16. teddybears
    Member

    Looking at the design I doubt whether the designer knows anything about cycling.
    They have certainly never read Cycling by Design or the Traffic Signs Regs.
    As well as the dodgy cycle facilities. (I certainly would never put myself on the inside of a roundabout like that!!), the yellow box is being used inappropriately and isn't even drawn correctly. Completely incompetent!!
    I know CEC have lost a lot of staff recently but this takes the biscuit.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  17. Stickman
    Member

    Design being revisited; resurfacing will go ahead but cycle lanes to be reconsidered.

    Easier to look at Lesley Macinnes' Twitter feed for more details (@lmacinnessnp)

    Well done to everyone who got in touch with councillors.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  18. Calum
    Member

    The resurfacing is going ahead... So there will be no reconstruction Dutch-style and any alternative cycle provision they cook up will also be entirely cosmetic. Great... /s

    Posted 6 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    https://twitter.com/cyclingedin/status/907865017449623552

    Posted 6 years ago #

  20. Stickman
    Member

    At least Lesley Macinnes and David Key have seen how disfunctional things are very quickly in their new roles. And also how quickly we will be on their backs when things like this happen.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  21. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    http://www.sustrans.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_content_type/sustrans_handbook_for_cycle-friendly_design_11_04_14.pdf

    I think, given the timescales, and the fact that this roundabout isn't on an actual cycle route, the best we can hope for would be a decent spec compact roundabout, as per page 20 in the sustrans guide.

    That would be good at slowing the traffic down considerably and hugely improve the pedestrian experience. Also, it would narrow the roundabout so that cars couldn't come parallel to bikes on the roundabout itself.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  22. davidsonsdave
    Member

    @Harts Cyclery - Thanks for your time and involvement.

    I suspect that you are right but I feel that this is another missed opportunity being that NCN1 passes straight through Silverknowes and this roundabout lies between the NCN1 and the popular and safe cycling destination of the Cramond Foreshore.

    Silverknowes Road is currently a problem as it is so wide that it encourages drivers to exceed the speed limit, making it hostile to most cyclists. I regularly experience drivers driving at above 50mph on the lower part of Silverknowes Rd (30mph limit) when taking my children to nursery.

    [EDIT: for regular I mean every time]

    Posted 6 years ago #

  23. Stickman
    Member

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/rethink-over-dangerous-edinburgh-roundabout-cycle-lane-1-4559484

    Posted 6 years ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    Another win for HankChief/Twitter -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115

    Posted 6 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    BUT why do WE keep having to??

    Reasonable chance this will finally change things - with new councillors on the case (Macinnes & Key).

    Discussion on here previously about 'don't overload them with trivial/small things'.

    Fortunately this has come along early - small, vital and symptomatic of CEC's joined up failures.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  26. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    I'm been offered to meet with the Council officer concerned. Will hopefully sort something out. Will be taking along some Spokes representation.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  27. PS
    Member

    BUT why do WE keep having to??

    I have to assume that it is because none of the officers involved use cycles for transport. As a result, the cycling element is always an afterthought/box-ticking exercise.

    Can CEC make its staff (across all areas) cycle more?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  28. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Can CEC make its staff (across all areas) cycle more?

    No employer can oblige its employees to take up extreme sports.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  29. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    CEC could start by buying a fleet of bikes for their staff to use to get around.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  30. Frenchy
    Member

    CEC could start by buying a fleet of bikes for their staff to use to get around.

    They already have some (but probably not many) electric bikes for this.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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