CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

M2GS - Meadows to George Street

(147 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from Stickman

  1. CycleAlex
    Member

    Consultants: If you're not part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

    I don't particularly see the issue with the 'Certificate of lawfulness of proposed use or development' though. Surely the Active Travel team are able to walk down a floor to planning and ask if it's needed.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. CycleAlex
    Member

    TRO/RSO designs are now available: https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s23757/Item%207.2%20-%20ECCT%20meadows%20to%20George%20St%20with%20appendices.pdf

    Of note:
    New segregated link along Teviot Place

    New bus gate on Market Street in addition to Bank Street

    Wider pavements and general public realm improvements now included on Market Street

    Cycleway is now on the west side of Hanover Street to allow a far better angle for crossing the tram tracks

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. jonty
    Member

    The tram track crossing looks pretty good. Hopefully the light phase is frequent enough.

    Good that they're restricting Market Street, outside the station is chaos for everyone and a really bad introduction to the city. The one way option - defacto forbidding u-turns - is very good too. Unfortunate if there isn't a contraflow lane though.

    Really good that Forrest Road will be controlled by bollards.

    With the caveat that the downhill lane is still too narrow - mitigated by the fact that traffic will be reduced on the main carriageway, and it will be easy enough to hop back onto the lane at the foot of the mound - I am actually quite optimistic about this.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. CycleAlex
    Member

    I assume there will be even less traffic crossing N/S with Market Street restricted than initially modelled meaning they can cut down further on the cycle time there.

    Given the lane widths are generally 3.25m and the bus usage on the Mound I don't think there's a huge amount of extra width to be found for the cycleway without reducing pavement widths. I doubt that'd go down well with Sustrans/LS etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    They'll need to start reserving against the cost of the first head-on collision on the Mound. Can you imagine having the dowhill riders within touching distance as you grind uphill? Only a matter of time until there's contact.

    I will not be visiting this facility.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. neddie
    Member

    WOW WOW WOW!

    That's actually pretty good, given the constraints. Can't find much to fault it.

    And they've even widened out a section of the Mound (earthworks!) to accommodate bikes. Incredible! So good.

    They taken tonnes of space from motors for bike lanes!

    Also great that there is a proper protected route along Teviot Pl, connecting the University.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. PS
    Member

    Interesting new traffic lights on the blind Bank Street corner - that should help in relation to what is often a surprise as you go round it. They'd better enforce a "don't even think about parking" bit on that stretch round the bend on North Bank Street. Maybe give the bars and shops there a trolley to use from a sensible loading bay away from the corner?

    I appreciate the number of ASLs and bikes painted on the road (ie, in addition to the cycle lane). It should help legitimise in some people's eyes using the road to descend, rather than risking a close pass in a confined bikelane.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    what is often a surprise as you go round it

    Never gone round that anywhere but just inside the centre line. Never seen that space unoccupied.

    Nobody else find the Mound design terrifying?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Frenchy
    Member

    @IWRATS - A concern I share, but thinking about it, I'm wondering how comparable the likes of Middle Meadow Walk, Leamington Walk and the Barnton Avenue path are. None of them have the 90 degree bend of the Mound, of course.

    I can cycle down each of them at over 20mph, which is roughly the speed Strava says I reach at the bottom of The Mound. And, without getting my micrometer out, I think each of them is roughly the same width as being proposed. But I can't recall ever having a safety issue on any of them (and I hope none of the people I've passed would disagree).

    Which suggests to me that it either wouldn't be a problem (i.e., folk cycling downhill on the cycleway rather than the road will just naturally slow down) or that careful design of the cycleway could solve the problem.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. jonty
    Member

    What width is the upper MMW cycleway? You can usually get up to a fair pelt down there but it never feels that bad. I do restrict my speed a bit more there than down the Mound but I don't feel like that's necessarily a bad thing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Frenchy

    Well time will tell. I find those plans very hard to read.

    The council absolutely refused to engage with me on the subject, as the bidirectional lane had been picked as the only viable option.

    Northbound I don't much care as I can take the whole lane at speed with ease, but southbound it's the risk of head-ons in the cycle lane or the inevitable aggression using the road. I may have to use the Bridges instead, we'll see.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. Stickman
    Member

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburghs-george-street-risk-cultural-vandalism-redesign-claims-councillor-2524627

    Tory councillor Joanna Mowat objected to the proposal in the current scheme for revamping traffic flow in George Street to have a two-way segregated cycleway on one side of the street because it flew in the face of the symmetrical design of the New Town.

    She said: “George Street is probably one of the finest set pieces of urban architecture in the world.

    “I would ask, even at this stage, we solicit a design that has cycle lanes running on both sides of the street to preserve the symmetry.

    No-one has any issues about George Street being improved, we are beyond the point where people are arguing about the parking.”

    But she said the issue of where the cycle lanes went was important and an issue on which people had strong opinions.

    “We are at risk of cultural vandalism,” said Cllr Mowat, who represents City Centre ward. “We risk real reputational damage.”

    Presumably Cllr Mowat hasn’t visited George Street since 1786.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. Frenchy
    Member

    Might need to start putting "Cycleways should be unidirectional in order to preserve the symmetry of _____" into all our consultation responses now.

    George Street, Old Dalkeith Road, South Gyle Crescent...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. wingpig
    Member

    Think she must have read some letters from some of the gammon at the earlier consultations. If they were that fussed about complete symmetry they'd need to change the side of the road vehicles should use on one half of it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Symmetry is the new parking.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    It is April 1st.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. neddie
    Member

  18. piosad
    Member

    Can anyone parse the proposed trajectory for a cyclist coming from Lauriston Place and going past Forrest Rd? It seems that both the turn right onto Bristo Sq and the straight on to Lothian St are facilitated by the ‘main’ segregated lane on the north side, but the continuation of the eastbound lane past Forrest Rd seems to indicate such cyclists are not expected to do a dogleg onto it; but then the eastbound lane kind of peters out into the bus stop/loading bay with no real facilitation of either a right turn or of continuing on.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. bacam
    Member

    Have the Teviot Place proposals ever been consulted on before? I think they're new, but I don't see any discussion in the report about them.

    Does anyone know why they've put the cycle lanes on the north side? It seems to get in the way of the bus stop and loading and be hard to access, as piosad says. If it was on the south side it might even get to continue uninterrupted if the area masterplan to replace the Potterow flyover ever happens.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. Frenchy
    Member

    What width is the upper MMW cycleway?

    Got my micrometer out when I passed today. I made it ~3.5m at the bottom, and maybe 4m wide at the top. So wider than the Mound proposals, but close enough to make me think it'll probably be fine.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Fingers crossed @Frenchy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. CycleAlex
    Member

    As a result of severe boredom, I ran through the plans again. I actually quite like the switched sides on Hanover St, lets you use the road downhill in both directions before joining the cycle lane uphill. Some oddities I noticed/rambling:

    Seems odd to just ban the left turn from George IV to Chambers St. I would imagine a separate cycle phase would still be needed if right turns are permitted.

    Yellow box at Candlemaker Row, potentially unnecessary? Due to the short distance between both sets of lights, further reduced by the yellow box, I can imagine the remaining drivers blocking the cycle crossover at Forrest Road when the lights are red at George IV/Chambers St. Although syncing the lights well here would mostly fix this.

    9.72m long ASL on Market St. A world record?

    The cycle lane doesn't appear to be raised at mini-zebras which seems unusual.

    The pavement is actually reduced by quite a bit outside the National Museum. Could the on-road cycle lane here be removed to add some extra pavement width?

    The junction at Teviot Place is just odd. If you're coming from the uni and want to head to MMW, there's give ways with the actual stop line earlier on Forrest Road. Like @bacam mentions, the south side seems like it would be a simpler solution. Plus a wide 1.5/2.5m buffer wouldn't be needed since there's no bus stop/loading.

    Market Street: I believe there was some controversy over the taxi rank here. Why not swap the taxi rank with the large loading bay to bring it closer to the station?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Got my micrometer out when I passed today.

    Previous work on the subject here, in case it's helpful:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16360#post-219145

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. jonty
    Member

    CycleAlex: without looking at the plans again I suspect the loading bay is intended for taxi drop-off.

    Would be reasonable to use double yellows instead, as taxis are permitted to drop off on those anyway, but perhaps that's not very intuitive.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. CycleAlex
    Member

    Does anyone know what's going on with this project? I can't remember seeing an update in at least a year and I don't think any of the legal orders have been published yet. Supposedly construction is beginning next year...

    Posted 2 months ago #
  26. CycleAlex
    Member

    Well, seems I found my own answer. ATSR7

    Meadows to George Street... Delivery by 2025/26

    Posted 4 weeks ago #
  27. Stickman
    Member

    Apparently that date isn’t correct and it should be started in 2023. Full update due to be published early October…

    Posted 4 weeks ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin