CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Is this a new kind of New town?

(77 posts)

  1. HankChief
    Member

    Objections need to be lodged by end of Wednesday (today if you are reading this in the morning)

    Comments on the lack of connections to existing cycle routes would be appreciated and won't take long.

    https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=OWOGR5EWGCP00

    Posted 11 months ago #
  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    “Is this a new kind of New town?”

    No, probably just an acceptance by the owners and council that the vacant plots at South Gyle and Edinburgh Park are never going to realistically be filled by offices and factories, so why not re-zone as housing and fill in the gaps. People need houses after all, even if they don't need offices or factories to work in.

    The old Scottish & Newcastle distribution site on S. Gyle Broadway which was vacant for about 10 years now has a big housing scheme of glittering white-rendered flats on it (biggest surprise being they have pitched roofs), conveniently separated from all shops / schools / amenities by a 40mph dual carriageway and surrounded on all other sides by offices and warehouses that are dead to the world by evening and weekend.

    A “civic square”, 150-seat conference and events facility, bar-restaurant, leisure and medical centre, micro-brewery and specially commissioned works of art would also be created.5

    Who needs a shop or a school or a park?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  3. acsimpson
    Member

    Did you lodge that as a response to the planning application?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    Parabola has bought up the House of Fraser site months after unveiling plans for a new £500 million “urban quarter” on the outskirts of Edinburgh.

    The capital’s biggest development for well over a decade is earmarked for a swathe of land on both sides of the tram line near the Gyle Shopping Centre. About 43 acres of undeveloped land to the south of the Edinburgh Park business park would be transformed under the firm’s plans.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/property-developers-buy-iconic-house-of-fraser-princes-street-store-1-4663710

    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. Blueth
    Member

    I do hope the "New Town" goes ahead - we desperately need a second microbrewery in that area to alleviate the congestion at the existing one.

    Has anybody ever actually seen any customers in there?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. HankChief
    Member

    Back on the subject of the Parabola Development in Edinburgh Park.

    Thanks to a Cllr Hutchison, he & I (with my work's BUG hat on) met with Parabola's consultants.

    They listened and acknowledged our concerns about the importance of a high quality East-West Route through their site to link up the Garden District with Edinburgh Park Station, the tramside path and South Gyle Crescent.

    We'll see what comes from it but it did seem a positive meeting :-)

    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. HankChief
    Member

    FYI - they have readvertised the planning application as they have reduced the boulevard from 2 lanes to 1 each way.

    So another opportunity to make comments about the poor junctions design for active travellers either end of the East-West Boulevard...

    Portal Reference 17/04341/AMC

    Posted 4 months ago #
  8. HankChief
    Member

    Your chance to comment on this plabning application closes tomorrow (15th).

    Do have your say...

    & if you mentioned the poor junctions at either end of the boulevard you will have my gratitude.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  9. acsimpson
    Member

    Oh dear, I should have read this first. I did say that a 20mph road shouldn't be a dual carriageway though. What do they expect the 2nd lane to be required for!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. Frenchy
    Member

  11. gembo
    Member

    Are the wee stone pigeons coming back too? Elegant trip hazard/fancy bollard for segregated cycle path, discuss. Also where are the Gormleys this weather?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The Gormleys are mounted on shear bolts so that they flip down if tree trunks and stuff hit them. It now costs too much to put them back up each time so they are sunk until austerity ends or the Water of Leith runs dry.

    Vulcan's alright I suppose.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    WoL quite low just now. Guerilla Gormley erection anyone?

    Yesterday @Iwrats liking Fox (turned out fortunately to be Colin not Liam) now I detect a softening on Eduardo? Vulcan, is that the William Blake copy? I click d on link but Hootsmon wanted mr to do a survey. Will google. Ok the one inside dean gallery made of sheet metal is I think better. And what we need is a big sculpture to detract our attention from the utter pointlessness of building office space at Edinburgh park? If Edinburgh lacks high quality office space then what rating do all the offices have? Actually one of my fellow commuters was telling me you can rent good offices now in Edinburgh if you avoid the modern glass and metal ones bring flung up under the noses of the Cockburn association or hidden behind large Paolozzi bronzes.

    Will do FOI for the pigeons? ( answer, they have been baked in a stone pie)

    Posted 3 months ago #
  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Guerilla Gormley erection anyone?

    Thought about that. If the castings are solid they weigh about 700kg. Probably hollow, maybe 200kg? Non-trivial to lift them and exploratory dive needed to measure bolt size.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    Big rope, lot of people in a row in water stretching up the river bed, yo ho heave ho, or if you like les Mis the musical, look down, look down, don't look him in the eye

    Posted 3 months ago #
  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Sounds good. Who's doing the exploratory dive?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  17. gembo
    Member

    Spurted of 2015 has them all? Out of the river except the one in the ground and the one on the dock?

    Googling does produce some great photos of them in situ standing right out of trickle of water and then more submerged as the water rises.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    From link above -

    About 1,800 homes and more than 7,000 jobs are set to be created at the development, earmarked for land on both sides of the tram line near the Gyle Shopping Centre.

    About 43 acres of undeveloped land to the south of the Edinburgh Park business park would be transformed under the plans by Parabola. It is hoped planning permission will be secured over the summer to allow work on the first phase to begin in the autumn.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. Morningsider
    Member

    Odd that such a "sustainable" development needs two multi-storey car parks to be built in its first phase.

    I don't blame a developer for waffling on about trains, trams and cycling - it is likely to salve any Councillor worries. Yet, put a huge development in an out-of-town location and most people will drive to it as they don't live near a railway station or tram stop or live too far away to cycle (I'm talking regular people here, not the CCE view of what constitutes a reasonable distance).

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  21. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    It says more of the 'right' things than most developer blurb but will they carry through on it? and unless car use is actively discouraged, probably doomed to relative failure

    "The developers also emphasise the easy access to public transport and cycling provision in the plans. The site has two train stations within easy walking distance, two tram stops and many bus connections. Cycling will be given particular priority in the overall masterplan with dedicated safe cycle routes, provision of secure cycle spaces, charging for electric bicycles, drying rooms, shower and changing facilities for cyclists. There is also to be a “bike doctor” facility and the appointment of a dedicated transport coordinator onsite promoting sustainable options targeting public transport, cycling and walking. Parabola also announced in July that it plans to move the company’s extensive collection of sculptures to the site’s parkland landscape to create a sculpture trail."

    More Paolozzi! Does iwrats know?

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Vulcan's quite good. I'll let that go.

    Folk eating at outdoor tables in artist's impressions on the other hand....with dedicated safe cycle routes, provision of secure cycle spaces, charging for electric bicycles, drying rooms, shower and changing facilities for cyclists. There is also to be a “bike doctor” facility.

    Truly we have reached suburban Nirvana.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “with dedicated safe cycle routes, provision of secure cycle spaces, charging for electric bicycles, drying rooms, shower and changing facilities for cyclists. There is also to be a “bike doctor” facility.”

    The management of Edinburgh Park was talking about all that stuff (apart from bike charging) about 20 years ago (after Park mostly built).

    Not aware much extra happened.

    They certainly didn’t manage much ‘demand reduction’.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    “I'm talking regular people here, not the CCE view of what constitutes a reasonable distance”

    Valid point, but already a lot of people walk from stations.

    Don’t supposes developers are giving money to ScotRail for more/longer trains.

    CEC/SG ought to want/be able to insist on greatly scaled back parking provision.

    Like they did for the St. James...

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  25. HankChief
    Member

    "Parabola managing director Tony Hordon said the company had amended its proposals based on feedback from stakeholders"

    Dum di dum...

    That might be me... They did seem receptive to improving the cycle connections when I met them.

    My hope is that to be on the safe side the Planning Committee make these a condition of any approval.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  26. gembo
    Member

    Twenty five years ago before the gyle shopping centre was even built we used to get the train to south gyle station and walk. Mrs Garto could do it in under ten mins as she had to clock into the flexi before ten or lose a half day. The train got into the gyle at ten to.

    No one who lived in Edinburgh drove. I once led the entire carriage in a rendition of the chorus of Big Yellow taxi.

    Those were the days,

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  27. ejstubbs
    Member

    What's the likelihood that this development will be used to justify opening up the access road to the Hermiston Gait roundabout to all and sundry?

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  28. HankChief
    Member

    @ejstubbs It is

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  29. HankChief
    Member

    Worth reading the report to Committee

    "Pedestrian Access
    The development is within close proximity to the Edinburgh Park Tram Stop. A strong pedestrian connection is provided under planning application 17/04391/FUL to the development. These paths provide segregated provision directly into the existing pedestrian network within Edinburgh. A condition will be required to ensure that these linkages are delivered prior to the occupation of the first office development

    Parking Provision
    Car parking is proposed within two multi- storey car parks. One is positioned on the west side of the site at Lochside Avenue and one to the east at Lochside Way. The total number of parking spaces proposed across the site amounts to 1, 566 spaces.
    This includes disabled user spaces and spaces for electrical charging. This provision is
    calculated to be 93 spaces less than the permitted level of car parking established
    through the original planning permission in principle application. Therefore the proposed parking levels are acceptable.

    Cycle Provision
    A total of 930 cycle spaces are proposed across the site. This includes a range of provision within buildings, communal areas and outside public facilities. The provision is in excess of the 871 spaces set out within the standards. The cycle parking proposals are acceptable.

    The proposed transport and public transport alterations are generally supported and will provide good connections to the wider public transport network. A condition will be
    required linking this application to the delivery of the tram crossing and details of the road junctions.
    "

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  30. HankChief
    Member

    This is a good condition

    "Notwithstanding the approved plans, prior to the commencement of development full design details of the proposed traffic signal control junctions at the east and west limits of the cross street shall be submitted for approval by the Planning Authority in consultation with the Roads Authority. For the avoidance of doubt the currently layout incorporating staggered pedestrian crossings is not supported. Subsequently, all works are to be carried out at no cost to the Council."

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

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