CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Resurfacing of NEPN

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  1. gibbo
    Member

    If I've gotten the right end of the stick, the Council are going to spend a big chunk of the active travel budget resurfacing NEPN.

    If so, I have 2 questions:

    #1: When?

    #2: How?

    Will this "resurfacing" be like the resurfacing they've done on roads - i.e. a gluey covering with loose stones that gets bedded down over time?

    If so, how will it get bedded down on a path that (in theory) cars don't use?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    #3: Why?

    (Partly covered by your preamble.)

    Posted 8 months ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The NEPN is lovely but as a resident of the southern wilderness this would feel a bit like 'to those that have shall be given'.

    We've got all the students and associated eggheads on their bikes and not a safe route into town.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  4. neddie
    Member

    Nine hundred thousand pounds. Nine hundred thousand pounds.

    <Said the way Dani Devito says "6 million dollars" in Twins>

    Down the swanny, instead of doing the hard stuff...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Because the only people inconvenienced by resurfacing the NEPN will be cyclists and there will be no net loss of parking spaces?

    Seriously, fix the odd trenches here and there that have been dug and poorly re-laid for lighting cables, fix the rough bits at Boswall and fix the lumps wherever tree roots are beginning to push up and scrape back the sides so the path is full usable width. There, I saved you £850,000.

    Could it be that the council has to spend the budget on something before tax year ends and its the only thing that's "shovel ready" and not still grinding its way interminably through consultation and design stages?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  6. wingpig
    Member

    Within the past couple of weeks someone has actually re-filled the deep sunken trench on the WoL just before the Newhaven Road bridgelet.
    Does anyone know how much the resurfacing of the Chancelot Path section cost?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  7. Frenchy
    Member

    Could it be that the council has to spend the budget on something before tax year ends and its the only thing that's "shovel ready" and not still grinding its way interminably through consultation and design stages?

    Very possible. I also presume they are reacting to some demand for improvements.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  8. gibbo
    Member

    @kaputnik

    My word, you're just as cynical as me. Welcome to the dark side...

    (I agree with every word you wrote.)

    Posted 8 months ago #
  9. gibbo
    Member

    @IWRATS

    The NEPN is lovely but as a resident of the southern wilderness this would feel a bit like 'to those that have shall be given'.

    I live very close to NEPN, so it's super handy for me. But even I think this is a waste of money and, in the spirit of fairness, would rather see it spent on you southies.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I mean apart from anything else I, and many other folk, ride what is essentially an urban mountain bike to cope with the very real prospect of hammering into a fifteen centimetre deep hole in the road in the dark.

    Tree roots on the NEPN, where you aren't even going that fast are not a big problem. Like @kaputnik says; sweep it, patch it job done.

    If cyclists requested that this work not be done would they listen?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  11. Iain McR
    Member

    what
    a
    waste
    of
    money

    Posted 8 months ago #
  12. wingpig
    Member

    Presumably this is from the same sort of budget which traditionally sees lots of random resurfacing in the lead-up to the end of the tax year? Is there not any sort of function to 'save' or 'bank' money from one budget year to spend when there's something to spend it on properly?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  13. wingpig
    Member

    "If cyclists requested that this work not be done would they listen?"

    I'll be asking my local councillor exactly what's covered, seeing as the NEPN datagather threw up things with actual safety implications like "drainage" and "lighting" as well as the odd mention of very small bits of rough surface. Maybe we were too loud in complaining about EdinCORE not filling in their trenches properly/quickly.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  14. fimm
    Member

    Are they going to look at the bits that flood at the Silverknowes end?

    Why can't they spend the money on a) clearing the leaves more regularly* and b) making sure it is gritted? (Yes, I know the answer, that's a different pot of money.)

    *she says, having picked going up and down a 40mph dual carriageway over the NEPN on Saturday because of the leaves - not just the small risk of a fall but a disinclination to get "stuff" all over my bike...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Does anyone know how much the resurfacing of the Chancelot Path section cost?

    Yes I have it on a spreadsheet somewhere at home, I used it when I was trying to work out the per-distance costs of surfacing and providing lighting of railway-trackbed (or other unsealed path) into a cycle path. I'll try remember and dig it out.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. davidsonsdave
    Member

    I was in touch with the person overseeing the implementation of the work a couple of weeks ago. They said that they were in the final process of putting the contract together. It seems a contractor has been appointed and they were waiting for a project manager to be appointed and for AECOM to make some small changes to the drawings.

    I was told that the drawings would be uploaded to the consultation hub once they are finalised.

    I was going to give it another couple of weeks before chasing given the usual glacial pace of these things...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  17. davidsonsdave
    Member

    On speaking to a member of the active travel team, my understanding was that the work would include improving the drainage of the path at Silverknowes but who knows! In contrast to the wording on the consultation hub it seems that these plans will be presented as a fait accompli.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    “sweep it, patch it job done”

    Ah, well...

    I suspect this is part of “the problem”.

    Fixing/maintaining stuff is Revenue and big things are Capital.

    There’s never enough revenue for fixing potholes, repainting lines, keeping housing stock and schools etc in good order...

    Fed up with questioning the point of this distinction (over many years).

    Posted 8 months ago #
  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Fed up with questioning the point of this distinction

    Useful in making sure projects come with money for upkeep, useless when money appears and has to be allocated to making things better?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    “Useful in making sure projects come with money for upkeep”

    And that happens how/when?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    And that happens how/when?

    It certainly happens in commercial organisations. Public sector...I'm guessing not?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  22. fiefster
    Member

    @Gibbo, Not "in theory", the Old Bill were parked up on the Wester Drylaw branch last night pointing eastward. Unsure if something nefarious was occurring but a bit disconcerting heading towards headlights in the dark. Past experience of heading towards encroaching contractors on the FRB cycle path proved invaluable

    Posted 8 months ago #
  23. gibbo
    Member

    @fiefster

    I've had times when cycling from Corbiehill Ave entrance to West Coates Terr (approx 2 miles), I've passed 3 vans parked on the path - all on different sections, all engaged in separate activities.

    (Unlike the van and 2 cars that were "required" by the 3 leaf blowers a few weeks ago.)

    Posted 8 months ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    "the van and 2 cars that were "required" by the 3 leaf blowers "

    Clearly:

    1 x van for transporting equipoment + 1 x personnel.
    2 x cars for transporting 2 x personnel from their homes/other work site to work site in question.

    You may well ask why did they not all just get into one van? Indeed you may well ask, but such questions are beyond the ken of mere mortal non-leaf-blowing personnel.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  25. crowriver
    Member

    "Could it be that the council has to spend the budget on something before tax year ends and its the only thing that's "shovel ready" and not still grinding its way interminably through consultation and design stages?"

    This.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  26. Klaxon
    Member

    Capex/opex is a foray into the world of whole of life costs

    Say you want to judge 2 surfaces against each other

    Surface A has a £100/m capital expenditure and requires £20/m annual maintenance (operational expenditure)

    Surface B has a £140/m capital expenditure but only requires £5/m/yr maintenance

    After only 4 years Surface B is saving money and over 20 years costs half as much as Surface A.

    However this sort of calculation assumes that the plan is to properly maintain the surface. If you've been given a one off grant maybe you go for Surface A to maximise renewals in the short term, as you are planning for zero rolling maintenance and bare minimum repairs.

    Never mind it'll be falling apart in five years. That's for the next administration to worry about.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  27. unhurt
    Member

    And politically speaking capital spend looks good for those involved. Much harder to look like a dynamic, delivering politician if your achievements are "improved budgets and planning for long-term maintenance and renewal". It's just not sexy.

    That plus delivering capital projects can be contracted out whereas maintenance requires you have people on the payroll who have inconvenient long-term pay and other needs.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  28. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Never mind it'll be falling apart in five years. That's for the next administration to worry about.

    What we need is to appoint a Dictator Benevolent. That or have a long-term plan agreed by all political parties and the population at large. Not sure which is least likely.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  29. gibbo
    Member

    @crowdriver

    You may well ask why did they not all just get into one van?

    Or, alternatively, why didn't they put the equipment into one van and part the other two vehicles on an adjacent road? (All 3 were parked near ramp up to Ravelston Dykes.)

    Or, even better, given these were handheld leafblowers, why not park on a road nearby and carry them to the path?

    Or, alternatively, why not put them in a bike trailer and cycle to/onto the path?

    All solutions that would haven't blocked the path.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  30. crowriver
    Member

    @gibbous, I refer the Honourable Gentleman to the remark I made some moments ago, namely "such questions are beyond the ken of mere mortal non-leaf-blowing personnel".

    Posted 8 months ago #

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