Lothian Buses has increased the single ticket from £1.60 to £1.70 while prices for adult and student Ridacards will also increase. These will all be effective from Sunday 25 February 2018. You can read further details, along with certain service changes, on the Lothian Buses website.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Bus fare up 10p
(35 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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Less subsidy for private motoring, more for public transport. Would be nice.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Still a bargain in my book but I'd suggest the following (at risk of thread drift):
1 - Make single tickets valid for (say) 60 or 90 mins, to enable a journey with a change e.g. Bonnyrigg to Crewe Toll more appealing vs. buying two singles
2 - Radically overhaul the M-tickets app to make it function more like an e-wallet where you can choose which tickets you need on the fly, from your overall balance, rather than (e.g.) having to specify and buy in advance x tram tickets, y day tickets, z bus singles
3 - or, instead of 3, get moving with contactless (which I do believe will happen one day)
But - that said, £1.70 from Clermston to Seton Sands or similar length journeys is not bad at all
Posted 6 years ago # -
It cost me £2-odd to go 2 miles on one bus in Fife a few weeks ago. Made me appreciate what we have.
Posted 6 years ago # -
1000% agree with your ticketing principles!
And as for the increase: it's the difference in % increases of public transport vs private that annoys me, rather than a speciifc commentary on Lothian Buses. (But it really should be possible to create a city centre ride zone to encourage bus trips for short journeys in the ost congested areas...) (Seattle does (did?) have a free ride zone in the core of downtown where you could hop on & off for free...)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Malta has the feature in Edinburgh87 in Point1. Maybe one euro gets a ticket that you can use multiple times within two hours.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"or, instead of 3, get moving with contactless (which I do believe will happen one day)"
It's already there on Airlink:
https://lothianbuses.co.uk/tickets/contactless-faq
"
When will contactless be available on other Lothian Buses services?Contactless payment is currently only available on Airlink service 100 (including the N100 night service). We’ll share updates on its availability on our other services on our website, on Twitter and on Facebook.
"Posted 6 years ago # -
Operating costs of £140 million in 2016....add that into a million people's council tax bills each year weighted to those closest to bus routes and in the poshest houses and make the buses free?
Would eliminate cash-handling costs too.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Doesn't LB return a profit to the council though? Having said that adding £50 a year to the council tax for a free a point of use bus service would be excellent.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"add that into a million people's council tax bills each year weighted to those closest to bus routes and in the poshest houses and make the buses free"
Riiiight, we'll just subsidise tourism even more than we do already, shall we? I already feel like I live in a theme park for most of the year.
EDIT: Council tax in Edinburgh 'only' raises £266m pa, so you would be talking a 50% across the board CT increase, or worse. You've lost my vote as Benign Dictator, iwrats.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Chuck in a tourist tax to cover their share. The number of times I've been walking somewhere and a bus approaches a stop at the same time as I but I have no change.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@everyone
Ah yeah, got to have a tourist and business tax element too.
@Murun Buchstansanger
There will be no vote.
@steveo
Yup I knocked dividend off revenue to estimate operating costs.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Someone told me that the 22 route is the most profitable in Europe. I'm ready to believe it. Frequent and full.
The buses are good value.
Locals not paying, tourists paying as in some museums might work but would need an ID system for that.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The Transport Act 1985 (introduced by you-know-who) prevents local authorities from subsidising bus services that can be provided on a commercial basis, which is pretty much every bus route in Edinburgh. Even if the Council wanted to provide free buses, it couldn't.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Even if the Council wanted to provide free buses, it couldn't.
pah, trifling details.
Personally I'd have a local public transport subsidy baked into "road tax" if all local buses were free at point of use then the financial equation of running two cars or "well I've got the car I might was well use it" would be a lot less clear cut.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm changing my benign dictator non-voting intentions.
@steveo for the Iron Throne!
Posted 6 years ago # -
Over 60s living in Edinburgh get free travel on the tram the council pays for this. This is not covered by the free bus travel.
What if the council was to offer free at point of use bus travel but the bus company paid per passenger like the bus concession for over 60s. Although a subsidies bus may be deemed an uncompetitive practice, free at point of use where council paid may be within the rules as this would not eliminate competition, if other providers could also offer services and receive the payments.
The over 60 concession free bus travel is permitted providers other that one can utilise the scheme. Free travel may work like over 60s concessionPosted 6 years ago # -
Ed1 - concessionary travel on the tram for Edinburgh residents aged 60+ is provided under Section 93 of the Transport Act 1985, which limits local concessionary fares schemes to those aged 60+, under 16, between 16 and 18 and in education, blind and disabled people.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Morningsider
You are so out of touch, daddy-o. It will soon be possible for David Mundell to amend the Transport Act 1985 by Order in Council so that it no longer applies in Edinburgh. Almost as if he and his colleagues were benign dictators.
Parliament will soon no longer be an impediment to our wellbeing.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Oh yes I now see the act limited free travel never looked at before , what if secretary of state agreed not sure who could introduce a class "Edinburgh people" and then get secretary to agree
section 93 7 f (f)
"such other classes of persons as the Secretary of State may by order specify."
Posted 6 years ago # -
IWRATS - debatable, any such regulations have to deal with a deficiency in legislation arising from withdrawal from the EU. Would be a stretch to apply that to the Transport Act 1985. Although, it's all still to play for - who knows what the Lords will do.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Ed1 - whenever you see "Secretary of State" in an older act that deals with a devolved issue then it is taken to mean "Scottish Ministers". You are right, I can't see any reason why Scottish Ministers couldn't do what you suggest - although they wouldn't.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"But - that said, £1.70 from Clermston to Seton Sands or similar length journeys is not bad at all"
More like a total bargain.
I was aghast to hear a sales pitch type announcement from the train conductor while approaching Leuchars yesterday. Tickets for bus transfer to St Andrews available from him, apparently. The price? £3.00 one way, £5.40 open return. That's for a journey of around 8km, which takes the bus just 11 minutes to make. Ker-ching! Stagecoach laughing all the way to the bank.
To think you can ride the bus all the way from Balerno to Wallyford, which is 20-odd kilometres, for about half the price of the Fife journey.
Posted 6 years ago # -
who knows what the Lords will do
That would be a temporal....spiritual matter!
I think sections 7.1 and 7.5 together give ministers the power to amend the EU Withrawal Bill itself once passed. So if they need more power they can just grant it to themselves.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Isn't Transport a devolved responsibility now, so Scotland could legislate to replace the 1985 act?
Posted 6 years ago # -
@IWRATS
Operating costs of £140 million in 2016....add that into a million people's council tax bills each year weighted to those closest to bus routes and in the poshest houses and make the buses free?
Back in the 1980s, I remember hearing someone suggest public transport should be free.
The more I've thought about it, the more it makes sense.
But, right now, we subsidise cars - by not charging them enough money for the problems they create.
And, given the council's - and Scot Gov's - stated stances on pollution, active travel, congestion, climate change etc, that makes no sense.
(Unless you think they're a bunch of liars who are merely paying lip-service.)
But fully subsidised buses within the city would be compatible with their position.
PS Another advantage of free buses would be a reduction in bus bunching. After all, if you could just jump on and off buses, would you need 4 buses going from Tollcross to Leith Walk?
Posted 6 years ago # -
ejstubbs - part of the Transport Act 1985 is reserved, the bit dealing with Public Service Vehicle operator licensing. The rest isn't though, which means the Scottish Government could create a new regulatory framework for bus services in Scotland. There is a Transport Bill in the works and it will deal with buses, but I expect the proposals to be feeble and unfunded - meaning local authorities will not be able to change much in practice.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Making a limited resource free at the point of use is a very bad idea.
As I've said before about roads being free at the point of use, the resource is not efficiently used and gets abused.
If buses were free this is what you'd get:
- buses held up much more due to people travelling only 1 or 2 stops when they could walk.
- people sitting on buses all day, for the ride/warmth/WiFi/drunkeness.
- massive groups all trying to get on the bus at once after the football.
- under-investment in busesI'm pretty sure the cost of a bus ticket is not a barrier to 99% of people for legitimate journeys.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm pretty sure the cost of a bus ticket is not a barrier to 99% of people for legitimate journeys.
But its an extra £50+ a month on top of what they spend on the "necessary" car.
If one could jump on a bus for two stops rather than driving, and people do drive rather than walk, then you do all kinds of cool stuff. Not just cut emissions but when you break the mind set of not walking beyond the driveway people might start taking discretionary exercise, maybe they think “actually I live on top a bus route I don’t need a car or at least the second one for the commute only is expensively reduntant”. Hell maybe if they’re not so stuck in the car mindset they’re no long so poor they need to spend time sitting on the bus to keep warm. And as for massive groups using the facilities… the horror, imagine football/rugby supporters using the bus rather than queues of cars driving from Gorgie/Murrayfield and surrounds on match day…. The horror!!!
Posted 6 years ago # -
Making a limited resource free at the point of use is a very bad idea.
Wait, isn't this one of the arguments made against socialised medicine?
Posted 6 years ago #
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