CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Fountainbridge heading west. Bus parked in the ASL. I asked him why and he explained it was not just a cycle box but an Advanced Braking Area for when you miss the red light. He was serious and totally convinced of his argument.
I have it on film but my head is shaking with incredulity that it doesn't make great viewing
It is legal for a vehicle to enter an ASZ box while braking for a light that had just changed to red, as I understand it, but illegal to enter the box if the light is already red and it was possible to safely come to a halt prior to the stop line. This case depending, it was likely preferable to the driver running a red?
A bus has to drive very gently, I sore in the paper a driver got done for careless driving when a passenger fell while accelerating, a bus can stop a lot quicker than accelerate, seemed a bit strange driver getting done for careless not sure if correct but what happened. I am sure if had someone standing on my bicycle at times they may fall when slowed or people stood in cars when moving
@Ed1 yeah, you would hope that bus drivers are trained to anticipate lights changing and not put themselves in situations that potentially require heavy braking. Modern fully electric/electric launch buses are most likely going to increase the risk of increasing problems due to sudden acceleration.
Advanced Braking Area?? Interesting point - clarification needed.
My understanding was that it is acceptable (as a driver) to be in the ASZ on a red if you had entered the ASZ on green in slow moving traffic and had got stuck there when the lights changed to red - otherwise not really acceptable. Any other views?
He just rolled into it anyway ..no sudden braking ... but that was his reasoning....kind of defeats the purpose of them.
@ih ah yes, I didn't mention that aspect.
@Ragingbike rolling isn't braking (unless perhaps it was an electric bus performing regenerative braking) so that was illegal. Were you on a bicycle in the box already?
Never understood the "allowed to stop there if you entered before the lights changed" get-out clause. Somehow very few drivers have difficulty stopping behind the line if there's no ASZ. But if there is one it's basically guaranteed to be occupied by a motorised vehicle.
Not supposed to cross the solid line at the start of the ASZ when the light is red. If they are already in it then they shouldn't be crossing the solid line at the other side.
Some are very badly designed.
Rule 178
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Aye the classic attitude seems to be mostly if the driver can't see any cyclists around they just roll into the box. If they see one, they usually don't - not always, there are a few SMIDGAF types who enjoy winding up cyclists, any excuse will do.
Not heard the Advanced Braking Area line before. That's a SMIDGAF with cherries on the top, and yellow ribbons too.
@jdanielp nah i was behind him when he rolled in ... it was just that he referred to it as an Advanced Braking Area with great authority ....probably an 'in' joke with bus drivers.
The law is really simple, it's illegal to cross either line of the ASL if the light is red.
>Aye the classic attitude seems to be mostly if the driver can't see any cyclists around they just roll into the box
I don't think that's fair at all. the vast majority of the time 95%+ cars/buses obey the law (+- a foot sometimes)..
"the vast majority of the time 95%+ "
I'm sure your anecdata is just as accurate as mine, even though it shows results which are the exact oppsite.
Confirmation biases?
We notice the infringers more than the obeyers?
What about motorbikes, they often go for the red box but should they be there?
I say split the difference. It’s around 50:50 compliance
I've always thought that Advanced Stop Zones were a bit of a grey area.
If motorcycles are not permitted they seem the worst offenders although there is still normally enough room for a bicycle so does not matter much unless 3 goldwings in a row
@IWRATS you're definitely not colourblind?
Ed1, in Scotland you're probably right.
In London there often isn't space for bikes in the ASZ.
I suspect old farts on Goldwings aren't a problem.
Whenever someone is in there who shouldn't be, I just take it as an excuse to infringe myself and plonk myself between the front ASL line and the pedestrian crossing and create a new box.
If we go over the front line then we are infringing. I infringe often and try to roll back so that front wheel is on the line but not Over the line Smokie, this ain't nam, Smokie, there are rules. (Walter Sobchak. What a guy, based they say in part on director John Milius)
I have a friend reminds me of Walter sometimes, but he was at the armoury at Otterburn rather than 'nam, man.
@iwrats, the Coen Bros were trying to negotiate the rights to Townes Van Sandt's version of Dead Flowers which were owned by Allen Klein, the former manager of The Stones. Klein was wanting $150k. The coen's showed him the movie.and when the Dude says "I hate the feckin Eagles" Klein is alleged to have risen to s feet and declared You can have the song.
Townes version is very sad.
Rule 178
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Plus a useful "Ask the Police"
When we did the Human Bollard Thingmy on Leith Walk urchaidh and I amused ourselves by betting on whether the next car to stop when the light changed to red would cross into the ASZ or not. If I remember correctly most went straight in, some started behind the line but slowly crept forward and the minority stayed behind the line. This was obviously in full view of dozens of cyclists and cameras. I don't think most drivers GAF.
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