“have yet to encounter any problems when travelling around 'walking pace'.”
Indeed.
Thing is, any sign saying ‘bikes shouldn’t be here’ causes problems.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Edinburgh Uni works on Middle Meadow Walk
(121 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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They seem to post a workman at each end of the works each morning on the grass - not sure to what end. I thought maybe to discourage the rapidly emerging cyclist desire line on the grass, but nothing is said (rightly IMO) to those who do take that route. In effect they are just human bollards adding to the chicane-ry.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@MB, Indeed. They are there to get in the way. I received a "OI! Slow Down mate" when heading North. I replied "Perhaps if you did some digging instead of standing about shouting at people it may get done quicker!"*.
*In my head as I went up the grass desire line after saying nothing....
Posted 5 years ago # -
Went through here earlier. Very annoyed that they've added another chicane at the bottom of the works, it just created a pedestrian bottleneck. It was busy enough when I went through that dismounting seemed like the sensible option, so I did.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Quite portable, those signs...
Posted 5 years ago # -
I've been told by the University that the council asked for the signs to be changed.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Contractor said last week that they wanted "dismount" but council wanted "walking pace", as the foreman gleefully declared they were going to restore the "dismount" signage.
Handy that each can blame the other...
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
Path is even more blocked today, with a diversion over the flash paving round by Sainsburys.
Was asked to dismount by a random lady this morning, despite my attempts to ignore her. She continued to engage by tapping on my back (shows how fast I was going).
I declined to dismount and continued up the empty grass strip.
Those signs are generating conflict & animosity towards humans who happen to ride bikes on a "National Cycle Route". Thanks Edinburgh Uni.
Posted 5 years ago # -
This morning, a dismounted cyclist to 3 mounted cyclists travelling in the opposite direction, "It isn't difficult to get off!"
Cyclists fighting cyclists. And making assumptions about who is able to dismount.
You see the animosity these signs are causing?
Posted 5 years ago # -
“You see the animosity these signs are causing?”
Quite.
Who IS in control here??
Presume it’s CEC land.
UofE work.
Contractors subject to the Law - esp “reasonable” under access legislation??
Posted 5 years ago # -
I've decided to just avoid it for the duration and go via Lauriston Place. Between them the University, the Council and the contractors have managed to close off possibly the busiest cycle route in the city and made a complete shambles of providing any temporary arrangements to handle this.
Posted 5 years ago # -
They should take note of the efforts of the contractors working on the Meadowbank Sainsbury section of the Lochend Butterfly, who have managed to construct a very serviceable temporary gangway hanging off the side of a wall above the bank of a railway cutting ("DISMOUNT" signage notwithstanding) whilst they store heaps of gravel on the old path. It shows that it's possible to create more temporary path if you need to block one to install your pipes and park your personal vehicles.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Changes were apparently made following "a number of instances where pedestrians were considered at risk from passing cyclists including cyclists passing an inappropriate speed and another involving a child being knocked off their bike by another passing cyclist."
I was also linked to Safety at Street Works and Road Works - A Code of Practice, which I haven't looked at closely yet.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"inappropriate speed" what is that then? Its a steep downhill with conflict engineered into it. Do they close roads or make drivers get out and push when a pedestrian gets knocked down on any other route?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Changes were apparently made following "a number of instances where pedestrians were considered at risk from passing cyclists including cyclists passing an inappropriate speed
Do you think we could have some changes made following "a number of instances where cyclists were considered at risk from passing motorists including motorists passing an inappropriate speed"?
^^ That question goes out to all roads in Edinburgh.
Or do we only get this nonsense when it relates to cyclists?
Posted 5 years ago # -
@neddie that question also goes out to some shared paths in Edinburgh, e.g. MMW/NMW. Speed is generally less of an issue, but a lack of space in which to pass is definitely an issue since it is often larger vehicles on such paths.
Posted 5 years ago # -
You must ensure suitable provisions are made for the safety of cyclists passing or crossing the works. Particular care is needed where cycle lanes or cycle tracks are affected by street works or road works because these routes may be especially popular with cyclists. Cyclists might have to use other parts of the carriageway, a temporary cycle track, or an alternative route. You should consider whether access on the carriageway can be preserved for cyclists, even if it needs to be closed to motor vehicles. See page 70. Where the carriageway is closed but the footway remains open, a ‘Cyclists dismount and use footway’ white-on-red temporary sign can be used. Your supervisor, manager or other competent person may need to discuss these alternatives with the highway authority
Sorry, document doesn't appear to apply, and in any case, the option of a diversion still hasn't been explored (because the Council maintain the cycle route isn't actually closed!).
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
Was back to just half closed today. Upper chicane gone too but may just be weekend high jinks.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Have finally had a response from the Uni to my July FOI request about these works. I wanted to know why they dug up the cycle path rather than the grass verges (to protect the trees), whether they considered the impact on path users (effectively no), and whether CEC imposed any constraints to lessen the impact on path users (no). If anyone is interested here is the response and the attachments.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Links give "403 Forbidden" errors. Can you upload them somewhere else?
Posted 5 years ago # -
MMW now back to full width, i.e. open.
New surface looks OK, there are a few sunken drain covers on the Southbound side of the cycle lane, however. Not yet ridden over them, so don't know how bad the bump will be.
I believe the council are going to redo the tactiles with non-slip(?) ones, at some point in the future.
Posted 5 years ago # -
After a precious four weeks they've chopped it up already to install a series of manhole covers (I assume going down somewhere). Particularly concerned by the one in the likely braking zone adjacent the entrance to George Square.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I think the manhole covers were already there, but so low in the tarmac they could probably be called integral potholes. Good that they're fixing them, but would have been nice if they'd scheduled the tarmac replacement to happen right after the removal, rather than leaving an obstacle course for a few days.
Posted 5 years ago # -
And quite an obstacle course it was, especially with the frost yesterday morning. This morning there was a bonus lorry blocking the entire cycle lane by the counter and a van parked 'considerately' on the grass just beyond it...
Posted 5 years ago # -
The obstacles are gone and the manholes are now bumpy in a different and arguably less offensive way.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Looked like the broken tactiles were being replaced today.
Posted 4 years ago # -
No expense spared and rapid action when it comes to making things more inconvenient for bikes...
So now we have a high-friction buff surface sided by two low-friction tactile surfaces. What could go wrong?
And beautifully painted give-way lines, yet somehow they can't even manage to re-line the existing on-road lanes, nor cut back the grass/mud growth over the path network e.g. SMW.
Honestly, almost worse than having a low-friction surface is to have a low-friction surface going to high-friction then back to low again.
The people who designed this still thinking like roads / motor-traffic engineers again - you just don't need that kind of high-friction sea-shell impregnated surface for bikes. And it's actually dangerous - if you come off on it, it will tear your skin to shreds.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Your photo makes me wonder - does 'give way line on cycle route nowhere near road' feature in the highway code? Does it have a set definition? Are there any studies showing that it actually alters anyone's behaviour? Would it affect liability if there were a serious pedestrian-cycle (or cycle-cycle) crash at that junction?
Think a zebra crossing painted there would be more appropriate but would worry about compliance coming down the hill as well as interpreting intentions of people walking off MMW at busy times.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@jonty - the peds walk right in front of you there, on their phones, thinking about stuff, in a dream etc. We should all be crawling through there already on our bikes. Regardless of paint. I doubt paint will help though as the peds are already completely oblivious. same as zebra would make no difference as you are supposed to embark on a zebra when safe to do so, whereas these peds just wander out.
There will be a week or two after festival ends before students back in force. Always a nice time of year
Posted 4 years ago # -
I actually don't understand why that high-friction surface is there at all. Any braking surely happens *before* the give-way lines. Bit odd.
Zebra marking might actually be a bit more obvious to pedestrians, just from the perspective of prompting a higher proportion of them to look before wandering out.The juxtaposition of SLOW with a Give Way triangle is not one that I recognise from the Highway Code. At a Give Way line you may or may not have the triangle. I've even seen GIVE WAY in addition to or instead of the triangle. But not SLOW plus a triangle. It's a confusion.
Posted 4 years ago #
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