City Centre Transformation plans are out and are ambitious...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
“Plans to make Edinburgh city centre ‘largely traffic free’ “
(191 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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Hard to understand exactly what's happening from that article.
No pedestrianisation of cowgate :( . But Waverley Bridge is a complete curveball.
I wonder what pedestrian priority means, if it's some shared scheme anything like Exhibition Road in London, it'll be a disaster.
I'm a little worried about the aesthetics of a lift to the castle.
Trams down to the Bioquarter is good news as someone who lives nearby though.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Full details will be in the transport committee papers coming out later today.
Posted 4 years ago # -
That looks totally awesome. Things I love about it:
- Connecting the multi-levels of Edinburgh by (cyclist-accessible) lifts, especially the station to public transport links on N. Bridge.
- Tram loop to connect to the Uni.
- Cycle routes along the Cowgate, Lothian Rd. and Bridges (on top of the already planned George St and Mound/George IV Br. routes)
- Some badly needed pedestrianised areas.
- Reducing on-street parking.
city centre transformation by Ed, on Flickr
Posted 4 years ago # -
I wonder what a cycle route along the Cowgate means in practice? At its narrowest points it would surely have to mean only one car lane - alternative flow lights like Viewforth/Gogar Station Road? It would make sense for that area as well as calming/reducing traffic and enabling wider pavements too.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Although it's unlikely I'll still be living in the area by the time the tram loop to the Bioquarter is finished - hooray!
Posted 4 years ago # -
The plans look interesting, although I'm not keen on what appears to be de-prioritisation (and potential precursor to banning?) of cycling along Princes Street however.
Being able to cycle alongside the gardens and castle view is part of its attraction, and it's the logical flat route to the Bridges.
The idea of a lift between Waverley station and North Bridge is definitely decades overdue (if this were London, it would have already happened).
I suspect the links between Market Street and the Mound, and Grassmarket and Castle might be funiculars? (Or are they just fantasy? I suspect that some in the heritage lobby might grumble considerably.)
Stockholm has had this sort of thing in place for over a century, however:
Posted 4 years ago # -
The additional tram route across the city centre via key destinations such as Tollcross, Quartermile and the UoE central campus is quite a clever inclusion.
Manchester (which was the first modern tram system in the UK and has expanded considerably) has only fairly recently opened an additional city centre route as the first line was at capacity as new branches were progressively added into their network.
If this happens, this is good forward planning on the city's part to try to avoid that problem before it occurs. (It may also have the useful side-effect of sharing passenger loads more evenly between Haymarket and Waverley. The logical next step might then be to extend InterCity East Coast services to Haymarket and Edinburgh Gateway as well?)
Posted 4 years ago # -
The Cockburn Association will have a fit about those elevators...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Cowgate to South Bridge seems like an overlooked cycle journey. I cycle Pleasance quite a lot, and always think how much room there is for good cycle lanes.
I suppose the idea is the lift into Waverley from North Bridge re-routes you away from Pleasance if you're going from the Innoccent path towards Waverley, but that doesn't solve the issue of getting to and from the Salt Horse bar from the Innocent, which makes up the other half of my Pleasance journeys.
feel bad for criticising what's obviously a big step forward, but just feel like one or two small changes would make it pretty much perfect.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@davecykl Indeed - I've never used the tram, despite taking the bus fairly regularly, simply because the tram doesn't go anywhere useful for me.
Also, the extra tram route has the added benefit of meaning problems on Princes Street won't cause the whole tram "network" to come to a halt, as they do currently every time someone drives into a tram on Princes Street. It'd be better if it'd go along Regent Road and then London Road - both of which are very wide roads, which would help keep the trams running if there's an incident at Picardy Place.
Posted 4 years ago # -
The extra tram route might just be the catalyst required to make Morrison Street a pleasant space.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I tend to think the trams makes streets worse to cycle in with the tracks.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Lisbon also big on public elevators, including this rather fine one (which you have to pay to use):
Posted 4 years ago # -
@Ed1: That's only because Edinburgh did a rubbish job of designing the layout of the tram tracks and the rest of the street environment with regard to safe cycling. It's not an intrinsic problem with tramways.
We are seeing that
cyclists' opinionscommon sense is now being taken on board with regard to the Leith Walk section of Line 1, and I don't doubt that the same would apply to this loop from Line 3.It would be a very foolish council that would now design and commission any extensions to the tram network that would put cyclists at risk, after a very tragic death and a not-insignificant number of injuries, given the likelihood of legal action.
(Which reminds me, what has happened to the planned safety improvements on the tram route at Haymarket and at the junctions on Princes Street? Or are these further casualities of the council's failure to employ staff (duh) to actually ensure that their worthy projects actually happen?)
Posted 4 years ago # -
Full paper has been published:
Posted 4 years ago # -
The 3D pie chart on page 73 by Jacobs is hilarious.
Some interesting details about the plans for meadows to George Street in there though. Pedestrianise Forrest Road and ban private cars from the top of the mound (and therefore in effect George IV Bridge) .
Posted 4 years ago # -
Pedestrianise Forrest Road
Pretty key to getting more cyclists towards city centre. Glad to see some more adventurous plans.
Posted 4 years ago # -
There is a lift in Mahon, small town Minorca. I was last in once and it was full so I raced it up the stairs. Arriving just before the doors opened at the top to the amusement of the passengers.
There is a lift in Brighton with a concierge. I think to stop Homeless people living in it.
I like the marble Scotsman Steps. Further west also used to use the steps near where the st Giles Patisserrie Florentine used to be - down to waverley, for some reason I want to call them The Press Steps? Also The Playfair Steps with their lions. I am not against lifts just very pro steps
Posted 4 years ago # -
The News Steps, still around
Posted 4 years ago # -
Thanks Piosad, I was close Press - News.
Always some mild peril on the News Steps, tight turns and a homeless bivouac in a doorway,
Scotsman steps always with the feint tang of urine.
Playfair the best but still closed?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Remember that the purpose for having lifts is to help people who can't use stairs or steep hills, though: wheelchair users, people with pushchairs, people with mobility difficulties, and not forgetting people with awkward trolley bags and also cyclists who just don't fancy a slog uphill for whatever reason that day. (I'm sure I can't be the only one who doesn't enjoy Market Street or The Mound, for example.)
Posted 4 years ago # -
I'm sure I can't be the only one who doesn't enjoy Market Street or The Mound
We should have a Presbyterian subsection of CCE. People who set their brakes up to drag, let their tyres down and refuse to cycle downhill or with the wind.
Posted 4 years ago # -
The full plans (with the maps/visualisations etc) can be accessed here:
A more user friendly version will be available after TEC on Thursday.
Posted 4 years ago # -
It's great but the implementation timescale looks very optimistic.
Given how long it is taking to deliver various cycling projects, I do question whether the council has sufficient capacity to deliver any of even the more modest plans in this document within ten years. I'd love to be proved wrong of course...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Perhaps they'll use this as a springboard to hire more staff? I can imagine it's easier to hire people if there's a major project to be a part of.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Nigel Serafini, Lothian’s commercial director said: “We welcome the council’s commitment to improving both the public realm and the environment within Edinburgh city centre.“As a business, we look forward to the council sharing the detail of their proposals with us in the coming months whilst recognising that it is likely to have a substantial impact on our current operations and finances.”
Garry Clark, Federation of Small Businesses’ development manager for the east of Scotland, has urged traders to take part in the council’s public consultation....
It’s one thing to ban cars for one day a month as a trial, but it’s quite another to propose a permanent car ban within 10 years, particularly as there has been no time to learn the lessons of ‘car-free Sundays’. It is also likely that cars will become cleaner over the next decade, with the council investing millions of pounds in a new electric vehicle charging network, so many of the environmental arguments just don’t stack up.”
Garry Clark should look at the evidence from all the other cities in Europe that have cut the number of cars coming into their city centres. He should also realise that it isn’t just about environmental benefits: cities are far more pleasant with fewer cars.
Posted 4 years ago # -
It is often claimed that Lavoisier converted the scientific world to his Oxygen Theory by evidence and logic, but he didn't.
Phlogiston Theory persisted until the bulk of its proponents died and were replaced by younger people weaned on Oxygen Theory.
So it will be with Car Economics.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Surely the plans are to be car, and at times van, free, not all traffic (ie buses, bikes etc). And that should increase bus modal share and reduce costs (less idling while stuck in jams). Given that pretty much every bus route goes through the city centre you can understand why LRT might be worried.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Given that pretty much every bus route goes through the city centre you can understand why LRT might be worried.”
Well yes but that is partly of their own making and certainly within their power to change things.
LB seem to be slightly stuck with the old Lothian Buses priority of buses (as opposed to passengers).
This led to the company having one of the best and newest fleets in the UK.
Now it needs to work on having the best route map and realise that, really, not everyone wants to include a view of the castle on their journeys through Edinburgh!
Posted 4 years ago #
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