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“Plans to make Edinburgh city centre ‘largely traffic free’ “

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  1. PS
    Member

    It seems that some folk really can't hold more than one idea in their head at a time. They think "environmental arguments" are solely about carbon dioxide emissions.

    They're so much wider than that: particulates, NOx, noise, injuries, intimidation, stress, aesthetics, social inclusion, mental well-being, etc.

    The ECCT strategy report does address this to a degree (I quite liked the line "traffic levels are a safety threat and can be a visual and sensory distraction"), but there will need to be an ongoing explanation of the wider benefits if the vocal minority are to be convinced or shown to be wrong.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    "Phlogiston Theory persisted until the bulk of its proponents died and were replaced by younger people weaned on Oxygen Theory.

    So it will be with Car Economics."

    Judging by his LinkedIn profile, I estimate Garry Clark (he of the FSB and formerly Scottish Chambers of Commerce) is in his late forties. So it will be quite a long wait for he and his ilk to kick the bucket. Given that I am most likely at least three years older than him, I may or may not live to see the day, depending upon whether you believe active travel really does extend lifespan or not.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  4. Stickman
    Member

  5. crowriver
    Member

    Been a while since I played it, but I don't remember any seagulls in SimCity.

    Cllr Cook can rest easy.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    While we won’t oppose public consultation on the SNP/Labour administration’s proposals

    Generous not to oppose our expressing opinions.

    the council must avoid playing a game of SimCity with the city centre that will have significant consequences for Edinburgh’s economy

    I suppose the heart of conservatism is that all changes are bad.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. neddie
    Member

    From what I can tell, SimCity is very much an Americanised idea of the way cities should be built.

    Certain assumptions are built into the game, such as you must have roads to move people around in cars.

    Gamers have tried to build "successful" European-style cities with low (or no) traffic and failed. Not because there was anything wrong with their city, but because of the conscious and subconscious assumptions built into the game by its designers.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    @neddie, also if you don't build enough roads, traffic jams and pollution increase, and the SimCitizens get angry, and Mayor approval ratings plummet...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. neddie
    Member

    if you don't build enough roads, traffic jams and pollution increase, and the SimCitizens get angry

    Thus perpetuating the myth that you can build your way out of pollution and congestion... Le sigh.

    Game does not understand induced-demand.

    https://la.curbed.com/2019/5/6/18531505/405-widening-traffic-los-angeles-carpool-lane

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. ejstubbs
    Member

    We visited Berlin for the first time last weekend. One of the things that I thought was very noticeable was the relatively low volume of motor vehicles in the city centre. At one point on the Sunday we were crossing the Kurfürstendamm and the nearest car (being driven as opposed to parked) was at least half a mile away down the road! Now, part of the reason for there being fewer cars about is very likely due to the good provision of cycling infrastructure* and public transport. But I also noticed the almost complete lack of HGVs clogging up the streets - and yet businesses in the city centre don't seem to struggle.

    Basically, Berlin seemed to have plenty of road capacity, but it wasn't congested. And I think that was because of a combination of regulation (e.g. on HGV access) and the widespread provision and ease of use of alternative transport facilities (and I'd include wide footways and other pedestrian friendly provision** within that, as well as public transport and cycling infrastructure).

    This in a city with roughly seven times the population and twice the population density of Edinburgh (and roughly the same population density as Glasgow).

    I suspect that part of the problem for people like Nick Cook might be that they haven't seen, or at least properly understood, what has been achieved elsewhere. It's all too easy to regard what you experience every day in your local patch as being "the norm", allowing you to dismiss the way things are done elsewhere as being "unworkable here" or just "funny foreigners". Even if you have seen and understood, if it goes against your own ingrained expectations of being able to take your car everywhere, you'll likely dismiss it anyway, since it's easier to do that than to reflect on your own lifestyle choices and consider whether they might usefully be changed for the benefit of both yourself and everyone else.

    * It probably helps if 70% of your city was reduced to rubble 75 years ago and you were able to rebuild it with lovely wide streets including pavements the width of the carriageway of an average UK residential street, so offering plenty of room for cycle lanes segregated from motor vehicles. I doubt such a solution would be well received in Edinburgh, though...

    ** For example, at traffic-light controlled junctions they don't stop all traffic and have a pedestrian only phase. How is that helpful you may ask? Because pedestrians get a green man when traffic on the road they wish to cross is stopped. Traffic turning in to that road must give way to pedestrians crossing on a green man - and it does, religiously, even waiting for people swithering about whether they really want to cross or not, rather than edging and barging their way through. In other words, when pedestrians have a green light, they have absolute priority.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. Frenchy
    Member

    I suspect that part of the problem for people like Nick Cook might be that they haven't seen, or at least properly understood, what has been achieved elsewhere.

    https://twitter.com/CllrNickCook/status/985870528895438848

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. neddie
    Member

    I suspect that Nick Cook understands it alright.

    He just wants to be able to drive HIS car anywhere and anywhen HE wants and who cares about "the city" or other people.

    It's the whole me me me Tory attitude.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. PS
    Member

    Coming back to the Lothian Buses comment:
    whilst recognising that it is likely to have a substantial impact on our current operations and finances

    Well, of course it's going to have an impact on their current operations and, therefore, finances. That's just a statement of fact. Whether it's beneficial, detrimental or a bit of both, we'll see. But ultimately the buses are (or should be) there to serve the greater good, rather than just chase coin.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    @ps, I do not think Lothian buses JUST chase coin? Praps you thinkin of dat Stagecoach?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. HankChief
    Member

    Can I make a plea to the great and the good of CCE?

    Ahead of tomorrow's TEC can you please write to your Councillors and especially those on the Transport & Environment Committee (including Lesley) giving your views on the City Centre Transformation & LEZs.

    Doesn't have to be a long email but outlining your support (or otherwise) would be helpful.

    Tweets are good but nothing beats a full mailbox showing support for their ambitious plans.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Done @HankChief, thanks.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. algo
    Member

    done @HankChief - thanks for the reminder. I also find

    https://www.writetothem.com

    is very handy and pretty much always get through.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. PS
    Member

    @gembo I dunno. Anecdotally I've heard that under previous regimes LB's main focus was revenue protection, with some Council officers being somewhat frustrated by their failure to do stuff that was in the customers' interests. That may well have changed under the new Transport for Edinburgh set up - it certainly seems to have done if their public pronouncements can be taken at face value.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Frenchy: Interesting tweet, thanks for posting it.

    I notice Mr Cook refers to "high volume of vehicles" - while there is in fact a grand total of one car on the fairly major junction in the background (it's this one in the middle of the Iiergarten). As I wrote above, my very distinct impression was that there isn't a particularly high volume of motor vehicles on the streets of Berlin - certainly not in comparison to Edinburgh, given the two cities' respective population densities. We were at the same junction at about 5pm on the Friday evening, which would be well within the evening peak in Edinburgh, and it really wasn't particularly busy - certainly no tailbacks of any significance at the lights.

    I notice that Mr Cook wasn't wearing a helmet. I think I saw no more than ten people wearing a helmet the whole weekend. This isn't a pro or con helmets comment, just an observation on the differences between people's behaviour in the different environments. There were also far more "granny bikes" being ridden, even by hip dudes with ponytails. And comparatively few skinny blokes in lycra.

    I also note his remark about "Easy coexistence with ... pedestrians through quality on/off road cycle lanes." The cycle lanes incorporated in to the wide pavements seemed to work well - people riding bikes didn't seem to have any compunction in given a pedestrians who strayed onto the pink paving a quick tinkle, and it always seemed to be received with good grace. But we did experience a few uncomfortably close passes from behind with no warning at all while strolling in the Tiergarten. So: easy, but not 100% perfect. That's human beings for you I guess.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. Stickman
    Member

    Approved by the Transport Commitee 8-3 (Conservatives voted against), so another consultation on its way....

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

  22. gembo
    Member

    I strongly agreed to most of it and exhorted them to have Courage

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “Closes 28 Jun 2019”

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. HankChief
    Member

    Traffic free again on Sunday... who's going?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. Stickman
    Member

    I’ll be there!

    The Meadows festival is also on.

    Last time I took a lot of photos of surrounding streets to show that there was no gridlock. While the council will (presumably) be monitoring traffic it might be worth taking photos if passing and sharing them on social media to counteract the nay-sayers and prophets of doom (aka the Tory councillors)?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. Snowy
    Member

    I'm halfway through my consultation replies and I'm two beers down. *Someone* had better read this feedback.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. Snowy
    Member

    "And another thing..."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    I'll be along for the open streets this time! And probably pottering around at the meadows festival on Saturday at some point.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Madrid's likely new president Isabel Díaz Ayuso believes congestion is part of city’s cultural identity.

    We'll get this soon. Keep an eye on Conservative councillors.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. Rosie
    Member

    Cars driven out, according to the Times, as if they were refugees. I can't read the whole article ££, but The Times has been very anti-cycling of late.

    "A greenway for cyclists through Edinburgh city centre and a ban on cars in a busy part of the Old Town form part of the vision for an environmentally friendly Edinburgh in a city council consultation document.

    The plan is “to enhance the experience” for walkers and cyclists by limiting access for commercial vehicles and private cars. Proposals for a route between the Meadows and George Street have been welcomed by campaigners for clean air and sustainable transport. Sceptics told councillors not to overlook consequences for business."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/cars-driven-out-in-plan-for-greener-edinburgh-795spxgvx

    Posted 4 years ago #

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