CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
This consultation open until Nov 5th.
My line throughout my response has been waste of time and money introducing legislation for almost non-existent offences.
From way several questions phrased they are going to do it in England and Wales. Maybe Scotland will not copy this?
Gembo mate must I Google that up alone? Will you not glue a link on my screen?
@iwrats, now I would like to, but did it on Facebook and now cannae find it. Warning, it may annoy you t is nearly as bad as Scot gov ones in the We have decided pleas agree. Also bit of dog's breakfast . Try UK Gov. Consultation Cycling.
Also unlike Scot gov does not automatically and a record of what you say as a file for sharing.
Closes Guy Fawkes day. Will glue and bump later if folk are not feeling riled enough during the day
@gembo It was posted under your local bicycle association.
Thanks Wingpig yes that is true, i did go in and get it but you beat me to it, alsio found related urgent review background blabber so first thing is the News Story - UK GOv appears to report its own news directly as well as through Daily Telegraph
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-urgent-review-into-cycle-safety
The other way of looking at this is that (I'm not sure if one or two pedestrians were killed by cyclists last year or the punishment in the second instance) either 100% or 50% of cyclists who killed pedestrians last year received a custodial sentence under existing laws.
How does this compare with the percentage of drivers receiving custodial sentences for the same act? Is the right aspect of justice being looked at?
If it is to be equivalent to death by dangerous or careless driving then there’s nought to worry about as those two are practically never applied.
I think the thing here is that the death by dangerous or careless driving is never applied because it's almost impossible to get a Jury to actually find anyone guilty of that (yes I can provide multiple sources).
I think that the CPS would be delighted that most jury's would jump at the chance to use this to punish a cyclist and show us all that we're not untouchable (apart from by cars, lorries and literally anything else) .
@blueth, very good point
"From way several questions phrased they are going to do it in England and Wales. Maybe Scotland will not copy this?"
I thought road traffic offenses like this were reserved? Therefore it would (eventually) be UK-wide? (Or at least Great Britain-wide: Norn Iron always seems to be an exceptional case in these matters).
Of the tiny number of pedestrian deaths involving cycling (seems to be 0, 1, or 2) annually, I've always wanted to know, did the pedestrian step into the road into the path of a cycle?
Don't get me wrong, I believe you should when cycling, pay attention to pedestrian behaviour and try to anticipate and avoid such actions, but I am sure that if a pedestrian walked off the pavement and was killed by a vehicle being driven normally, the driver would not be charged with causing death by dangerous or careless driving.
@ih, well we know the answer to that. A certain London track bike rider with no front brake hit a woman who walked into road, allegedly without looking. He was pilloried in the media, had the book thrown at him, and is now in prison. The media inspired hysteria led to the government considering this change in the law.
So, as ever, it's one rule for drivists, and quite another for cyclists. (Though in fairness, if a driver's vehicle had defective brakes and killed someone, they'd probably be prosecuted too).
"(Though in fairness, if a driver's vehicle had defective brakes and killed someone, they'd probably be prosecuted too)."
Well there was this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525561/Driver-fined-180-for-defective-tyres-after-killing-four-cyclists.html
To be fair in the latter case it was decided that ice was the cause so state of the tyres did not cause the crash. In the bike case it was the fact that he chose not to even try to stop that got him nicked.
My understanding of the Alliston case was that he tried to swerve rather than stop, but she stepped backwards into his path, and that there was not enough time for him to stop. The reason he was prosecuted was that his bike wasn't road legal, though there's also other things I've seen that indicated a front brake still wouldn't allow him to stop in time.
The investigation in the van incident found that the tyres weren't the cause, but I don't see how they can't be a contributing factor, just like Alliston's front brake (or lack thereof).
He was convicted under the old law, but for the 'wilful misconduct' bit (ie no front brake) not the 'wanton and furious' riding bit. He was cleared of manslaughter which relates more to a 'causing death by dangerous cycling' charge. So logically, he would not have been convicted of dangerous cycling.
@crowriver, not sure why they ask separate Scotland question then?
@gembo, different act of (UK) parliament as different legal system. Maybe some very slightly different provisions in the existing legislation? Anyway presume government will set out amendments to both England & Wales and Scotland RTAs.
This consultation has been updated, with a report focused on the law in Scotland.
Link to consultation page: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/new-cycling-offences-causing-death-or-serious-injury-when-cycling
Direct link to report: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/740535/supplementary-cycling-walking-report-scotland.pdf
Gist - culpable homicide can be used to prosecute a cyclist in Scotland. It hasn't been but it could be. Reckless conduct can also be used to prosecute a cyclist.
No immediate need therefore for reform.
The legal eagle then pulls his punches a little by saying it may be that there needs to be some discussion around updating the law. Whereas I would argue this would be wasting public money as the legislation already exists should a bereaved person wish to prosecute a cyclist for loss of loved one.
Closes Monday.
Direct link to consultation: https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/cyclesafety/
I basically made the point that if you Kill/injure someone in a car you will often be treated lightly and that we are in danger of punishments being more harshly treated if you are on a bike.
Punishments for bad driving should mirror the responsibility that driving a machine the liklihood of injury to others is higher.
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