CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Today's rubbish workplace facilities

(20 posts)
  • Started 5 years ago by piosad
  • Latest reply from davidsonsdave

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  1. piosad
    Member

    I will also put this in an email to facilities but I need to vent a bit. As you may know the new Edinburgh University building in Potterrow has an underground bicycle parking facility, to replace the old bike shelter. We were asked to email in advance if we wanted to use it as apparently they were so fearful of huge demand they wanted to restrict it to users of adjacent buildings at least to begin with. So I emailed and was told that the basement would not be ready in time for the building's opening at the end of August. It is now apparently in use, although the email never came, but I saw some people going in and out and my card worked. Except there is a card-access door at the top of the stairs, not motor actuated and you have to pull to get in. Down the stairs, corners already filling up with leaf mulch, and there is another card access door, pull again. There is far as I can see no way to get to the second door without getting through the first one so I am not sure what the point is, but in any case digging out your card twice while holding a bicycle with the other hand is not a lot of fun, and shutting the door by hand is not the best if you have any sort of tandem / tagalong / recumbent setup.

    The mad demand has obviously not materialized, by the way, it's pretty empty. Perhaps unsurprising given the lack of advertisement but so far pretty disappointing.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. geordiefatbloke
    Member

    Hi @piosad, I agree access is a slight pain, but the facilities (once you're in!) are very nice. As for emptiness, the Bayes building is not yet at full occupancy (and won't be for quite a few months) so perhaps a bit early to comment on demand.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. jdanielp
    Member

    I had a wander around the extension the other week and was wondering whether the gated steps were for access to bike parking... I heard that the old shed had some issues with security since the exit button was reachable from outside, but at least it seemed quite usable otherwise unlike this.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. geordiefatbloke
    Member

    It's a massive, secure, sheltered bike store with showers and lockers (and nominally some drying cabinets when someone fits them!), it's not perfect but it's a decent attempt, and a damn sight better than the facilities we had up the road at Kings Buildings. However, I just have a bog-standard two wheel bike so I understand that I will not have the difficulties others may have, so it's a shame that these edge cases were perhaps not better taken into account.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. piosad
    Member

    @geordiefatbloke, I think access will be a major pain and will depress usage. To me it bears all the hallmarks of being designed without very much in the way of consultation with actual users (I'm pretty sure there wasn't much of it to start with), or even a lot of thought beyond 'stick some racks and pumps and showers in a basement'. I can't explain the manual actuation otherwise! I agree it's nice inside — though it remains to be seen how the floor will handle lots of mud, and I'd worry a bit about the poor sightlines in terms of feeling safe. I take the point about the building not being occupied but I can't see why they wouldn't tell those who had signed up — exactly as they'd asked — when it opened.

    @jdanielp, the old shed wasn't much to write home about, it wasn't mega safe and was always full to bursting, but at least there was just the one door to get through.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. geordiefatbloke
    Member

    Our department was consulted, but the problem with consultation is that the right questions may not be asked. We put forward a wishlist i.e. lockers, showers, drying areas, security, restricted access etc, all of which were met, but I suspect it didn't occur to any of us to suggest to the architects to only have a one-door access rather than two, as we didn't know what the access arrangements would be (and one assumes that people who design buildings have some clue about this sort of thing!).

    For what it's worth, I too wasn't informed about the "official" opening of the bike store (I suspect it may not actually officially be open!) but people just started using it so I joined in.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    In my non-Uni, not long opened building, the powers-that-be have banned bikes from the vehicle ramp and have decreed that bikes must be taken down to the basement via fire exit and lift. All of which would pretty much rule out a bakfiets or similar.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. gembo
    Member

    Have been invited to apply for up to £25k in the cycle friendly employer scheme. Fancy a drying room. Probably not enough room for 100 cagoules to dry tho.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. davidsonsdave
    Member

    Edinburgh University has recently refurbished Murchison House in KB, which I estimate accommodates a little under 400 members of staff and up to around 900 students with computer labs, a lecture theatre, classrooms and study spaces. It also has a cafe. Although they themselves state that nearly 12% of the University population cycle, this is what they have provided in the way of a secure bike facility. Basically, a compact, 20-bike wheel bender.

    Edit - which is unusable for anyone who has full-length mudguards, or who has a non-standard bike.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. Frenchy
    Member

    *Adds to list of things to complain to UoE about...*

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. Snowy
    Member

    What do you mean there's more than one sort of bike?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. unhurt
    Member

    What do you mean there's more than one sort of cyclist?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. Frenchy
    Member

    When I looked yesterday, davidsondave's bike shed actually had a bike with tagalong parked in it. It was obviously not parked in one of the racks.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    @frenchy can you complain to U of E also about the big Boulder they have placed at entry to Moray Hoise, is it Gladstone's Land? I can't cycle along the strange metal rail now and have to go the other side and try to avoid the students.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. Frenchy
    Member

    I can, but you'd be quicker doing it yourself.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. piosad
    Member

    As for the thread-starting facility, credit where credit is due, the stairs are being quite regularly cleaned of mulch. That said, there are four equally pointless access doors at ground level, none with mechanical actuation, so at least one is usually not closed because they are heavy and tend to bounce off the magnet. One of them was blown into the neighbouring window, taking out a glass pane, so had to be taken out of commission for a few days. Not to mention the fact that the portacabins for the refurbishment of 7 Bristo Square have occupied Marshall Street, so access to the entrance with the ramps is now via a narrow alley, and getting out of the entrance and turning left into Bristo Square requires negotiating a blind corner — massive conflict built in, in other words.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. davidsonsdave
    Member

    @Frenchy Yes, I was completely wrong, it fits like a glove ;-)

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. piosad
    Member

    Admitting defeat in the battle between poorly-thought-through design and actual user experience, they have now put up a notice asking to keep gates closed at all times. (See above heavy doors bouncing off, people leaving doors open for the next person, etc.etc.). Door closers are (according to equally baffled facilities person) still 'being considered by the architect' so they better be aesthetically pleasing when they come, I suppose.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. Tulyar
    Member

    I dropped some input into the development of this http://www.meesons.com/?s=Bike+guardian which uses the arrangement which worked the first automated bike hire unit in the UK (1996 Bikeabout in Portsmouth funded through the EU VIVALDI programme for using RFID cards for transportation 'purchase')

    The unit can read an ACTIVE RFID key without the user having to present it to a scanning point, or could be Bluetooth enabled from an identified mobile device. Users have the option of also identifying their cycle, with an ACTIVE RFID tamper-sensing tag. This will associate the bike I/d with the user I/d and can also be set-up to automatically open the doors inbound, but require user I/d to take that bike away, additionally the ACTIVE RFID has a detection range of over 100 metres, so that a closed loop aerial covering the parking area can monitor the pulsed RFID signals from all bikes in the compound 24/7 and produce reports if required on bikes which have not moved in say 6 months.

    The ACTIVE RFID tag is optional, and any person in the user population, with an ITSO RFID card or fob (eg matriculation card, staff pass, ScotRail smart card, Lothian Bus Ridacard....) can wildcard enable a single card for bike parking and other uses (eg car club, Scottish Travel Entitlement Card ....)

    But back to making some lemonade with your citrous cycle parking.

    The doors at present, I presume, have a detent equipped door closer system, so that the door latches when opened to 90 degrees, and has to be tugged off the detent to close again An alternative to this was something I looked at in 1998 for the HomeBikePark project, using fire door magnets, either with a timer, or a release detection system, which de-energised the magnet when the cycle and user cleared the doorway. Basic magnets fairly cheap from RS or any fire safety systems provider.

    For @davidsonsdave

    1) To load those trays as the design requires, you need the length of a bike as the aisle width in front
    2) I'd wager that the tray pitch is 305mm centres (an old UK design standard for when 'all' bikes had handlebars less than 2 ft wide) The Dutch Fietsparkeur standard calls for 375mm, and I used 400mm (an 800mm handlebar envelope) in my 1997 report for DETR & Southampton City Council when proposing a Standard Bike envelope (Still widely used, rarely credited)
    3) Designs of tray & tray equivalent incorporating a locking loop or side bar are available.
    4) A properly specified double-sided version of this can store 26 bikes on a footprint of 2m X 5m (luess than 1 car parking space. Educate your architect
    NB the original designs worked fine with full mudguards back in the day, unless some detail has changed

    For @muran... One can probably expect a steady problem of enforcement & road muck in the lift will force a review of this daft policy?

    Almost done, note that I've tried to get a UK bike parking supplier to promote & sell a German design of modular bike parking which keeps bikes neatly aligned, individually accessible, parks 26 bikes on footprint 3m X 5m, with no moving parts or 2.6m height required (2-tier racks). Trikes, tandems, boxbikes can also use the racks (but may block some adjacent spaces) The UK agent has no desire or interest in promoting this innovation, as architects specify hoops, or other even crappier products, & they want to sell high volume of anything that the client specifies.

    I've also a design to attach along walls & railings to secure bikes neatly, within the width of the handlebars (80 cm envelope). The units are again modular and get a bike every 80-90cm. They can mount on a frame for fast & accurate installation, and require NO holes made in any pavement - important when a basement may extend out beyond a building wall, or an expensive paving system is on the site. When not in use, the units can be folded back against a wall, so that access to maintain the facade, or along a passage for a wide vehicle can be provided when occasionally required.

    I'm finding this quite frustrating.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. davidsonsdave
    Member

    @Tulyar

    Thanks for the helpful detail!

    1) To load those trays as the design requires, you need the length of a bike as the aisle width in front

    The aisle is 1330mm wide so around 400mm short of the length of an average bike.

    2) I'd wager that the tray pitch is 305mm centres (an old UK design standard for when 'all' bikes had handlebars less than 2 ft wide) The Dutch Fietsparkeur standard calls for 375mm, and I used 400mm (an 800mm handlebar envelope) in my 1997 report for DETR & Southampton City Council when proposing a Standard Bike envelope (Still widely used, rarely credited)

    Bingo! The distance between the centres fluctuate a bit but average seems to be around 305mm

    3) Designs of tray & tray equivalent incorporating a locking loop or side bar are available.

    They do have a locking loop at the side which gives the bike some support if you position the cranks to lean on it. It means that at least you have the illusion of security but the loop is so thin that it would be quick work for an angle grinder or bolt cutters.

    4) A properly specified double-sided version of this can store 26 bikes on a footprint of 2m X 5m (less than 1 car parking space. Educate your architect
    NB the original designs worked fine with full mudguards back in the day, unless some detail has changed.

    The specification of bike parking at the Uni varies wildly. There is a good versions with plenty of space and some where it is near impossible to get bikes in and out. This one falls into the latter category, unfortunately. The rear full-length SKS mudguard catches on the edge on both bikes I have tried. There is a hole in the rack for the front and rear wheels to sit in, which is what is probably causing the issue. In the meantime, I have found a small section of kingspan insulation which sits in the rack and solves the problem.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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