So coming down, heading north... on Lothian Road the arrow from the bus lane merges into the second lane just before Rutland St. Should a private hire van be able to overtake and then cut in front and turn left into Rutland St in front of a merging cyclist .. or do the buses, taxis and cyclists just need to stop and wait at the arrow?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Bottom of Lothian Road question
(50 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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That's what the arrows indicate they can do. Bus drivers are used to it and indicate right out of the bus lane in advance. Taxis just indicate left even though they're technically moving right out of the lane first. Cyclists are at the mercy of rat-runners heading for Canning St and taxis. Strangely, the merge-priority arrows at the bottom of Holyrood Park Road were never so highly regarded by motor traffic.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I had a client once who insisted when he visited me in Muirhouse from his flat in Wester hailes he was obviously travelling south as he was coming downhill. He was unshakeable in this belief at the time.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Ragingbike
It's a free-fire zone there. I tend to go as fast as possible in lane two wherever I'm headed.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@gembo - I tried giving directions to someone I know once, and they cut me off, saying "I don't understand the concept of north". This person has several degrees.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Frenchy well, a degree doesn't impart a sense of the cardinal directions - some people struggle with right / left never mind mentally orienting themselves to N / S.
@gembo my mother has at times carried this conviction...
Posted 6 years ago # -
They should possibly close that entrance to Rutland street it creates a bigger mess than that junction has to be.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Frenchy - these people are the reason all the map boards in London have the maps orientated to the way you're facing while standing at the actual board.
For people without the concept of north it's helpful, but for everyone else who is used to navigating on a correctly orientated maps it's super confusing.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I only know which way is north in Edinburgh because I live in the north of the city. If I was a tourist in London I would have not the foggiest clue. Where do I return my degree?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Having been brought up near the (English) South Coast and lived North of the river in London, I am perpetually confused by the water being to the North of Edinburgh, when all the water previously had been to the South of me.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I don't understand how a person is meant to orient themself in a FLAT city. I mostly rely on hills to keep me right.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I suppose he advantage of north-oriented maps to the non-head-compassed person is that at least all the maps look the same.
I was very surprised to arrive in North London first when taking the coach there once - my internal map seems to be oriented as if I'm looking at a place from home, with North furthest away.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I am perpetually confused by the water being to the North of Edinburgh, when all the water previously had been to the South of me.
If it makes you feel any better I have lived in Edinburgh all my life and I still get confused like that on occasion. I think I've got a mental block that hills should be north
Posted 6 years ago # -
i would like to say Amen to dougal and Hank.
my partner mocks me never knowing where north is, but put him in a city with a grid and he is lost within seconds. (which causes problems, as i'm not used to him being lost and so cheerfully follow for miles in what turns out to be the wrong direction.)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Back to the OP. The middle lane is the continuous one so it is up to the merging traffic from the bus lane to fit in as they can. Poor road layout, but the best thing to do is to get into the middle lane early before the merge point.
Posted 6 years ago # -
But once you start navigating do you not use a map that is orientated correctly to navigate?
I'm not suggesting that I magically know where north is (although I do have some tips for nautical navigation which helps with that) but that when I start navigating I want the map I look at to be orientated with top to north so that it relates to the streets I can see, not rotated so that the top of the map is the way I am facing.
I bought a compass on day one in New York. Grid with huge city blocks is SUPER confusing.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@ARobComp
It takes me a few weeks to orient spontaneously in a new city. Cities with underground stations emptying into circular squares (if you see what I mean) more or less mandate a compass if you don't want to thrash about for ten minutes.
I'd love to know what cues humans use to orient spontaneously. Sun, wind, slopes...polarisation? Magnetic field?
Posted 6 years ago # -
At least the grid in Manhattan is aligned N-S and E-W.
Imagine if it were NE-SW and NW-SE. That would be mega confusing
Posted 6 years ago # -
A colleague at my ex workplace was so confused by the building layout and the room naming convention (NW1-3 etc) that he brought in a compass on the second day.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Cities with underground stations emptying into circular squares (if you see what I mean) more or less mandate a compass if you don't want to thrash about for ten minutes.
Exhibit A: Oktogon in Budapest.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Also, for those interested in humans orienting themselves in space while thinking or speaking in langauges - this is a v nice article that gets into the Guugu Yimithirr (and other languages that use cardinal directions instead of left/right/in front/behind) language / experience of the universe thing (down below the quick intro to now-discredited Sapir-Whorf stuff and the gender stuff).
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html
"The convention of communicating with geographic coordinates compels speakers from the youngest age to pay attention to the clues from the physical environment (the position of the sun, wind and so on) every second of their lives, and to develop an accurate memory of their own changing orientations at any given moment. So everyday communication in a geographic language provides the most intense imaginable drilling in geographic orientation (it has been estimated that as much as 1 word in 10 in a normal Guugu Yimithirr conversation is “north,” “south,” “west” or “east,” often accompanied by precise hand gestures). This habit of constant awareness to the geographic direction is inculcated almost from infancy: studies have shown that children in such societies start using geographic directions as early as age 2 and fully master the system by 7 or 8. With such an early and intense drilling, the habit soon becomes second nature, effortless and unconscious. When Guugu Yimithirr speakers were asked how they knew where north is, they couldn’t explain it any more than you can explain how you know where “behind” is."
Posted 6 years ago # -
Exhibit A: Oktogon in Budapest
aye, oktogon / andrassy is quite a challenge in the dark for a first time visitor
Posted 6 years ago # -
@hankchief had the same issue when I moved here from Dundee. Taken a while to get used to it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
For exiting underground stations the sun is useful. Also knowing the approximate orientation of the track you arrived on and keeping track of left/right turns on your way up to the surface.
But pretty much having a smart phone has made any other skills redundant.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@steveo (and Hankchief) I'm also Edinburgh born a bred but still think of the hills as being at the top of Edinburgh and have to think harder than elsewhere to remember which way is North. I suspect it's because I didn't learn my way around the city using maps.
In other cities where I have used maps as my primary source of navigation I don't have the same issue.
Generally if I have visited a city a little I can find my way around it, but like others grid cities with lots of high buildings (Eg Glasgow) are harder. I assume this is a mixture of no landmarks and lack of sky. I found New York easier as it has plenty variation (eg Broadway and parks).
Cities such as London or Paris where I have travelled a lot underground leave me with pockets of knowledge but no idea how they join together. It wasn't until I walked from Westminster to Trafalgar square that I realised how close they are.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I think because most cities evolve around rivers, we expect, subconsciously or not that down will tend to lead to the centre and up out and away. Edinburgh confuses things by having no river and big hill in the middle. Add in the whole water to the north thing and hills to the south and it's no surprise that it's difficult to navigate by our usual cues. (We'll draw a veil over streets that intersect with other streets, but 20 feet above them).
Posted 6 years ago # -
Wow had no idea that my use of the term 'north' would have such an impact.
Thanks for the Lothian Road filtering comments
Re orientation ...may i suggest to any of you that are confused that you come for a wee come and try at a local orienteering club eg ESOC.org of which there are several in and around edinburgh. Loads of events all winter... you will quickly learn how to use a mao and compass and there are so many great events in and around Edinburgh that gets you into parks, hills, woodlands and beaches, you may not have been to... ..It also helps you navigate in cities ;-)
Posted 6 years ago # -
We have so got a river.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@wingpig I lade this claim to my German visitor but apparently when you live five minutes cycle from the Rhine the Water of Leith doesn't cut it. She called it "cute".
Posted 6 years ago # -
Having a navigable river up the middle's not all it's cracked up to be. Ask York.
Posted 6 years ago #
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