CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Stuff

Chucking the front mech

(33 posts)
  • Started 5 years ago by LaidBack
  • Latest reply from LaidBack

12

  1. LaidBack
    Member

    Back in 2006, Dutch made Nazca Fuego models came with 9x2 speed gearing, tyres were from Vredestein and Avid BB7 disc brakes were a recent invention.

    Subsequent models used SRAM X7 triples 3x9 and then onto Shimano XT 3x10.

    Potential customer asked me about whether SRAM Eagle would fit to this model. We'd already done one on a carbon Pelso model for customer down south (near Nice). I had a well used 2012 demo with well worn gearing so thought that it was worth a shot in the interests of science. Appreciate that I could have fitted less old used parts from my basement but am curious to see if 12 speed is as weak and disposable as expected!
    Material wise it probably uses less than a triple as quite light. But of course that counts for nothing if it wears out in six months!

    Sprocket talk
    Fitted with a 'made in England' Superstar 40t front chain ring to a 10-50 cassette to a Hope XD compatible rear hub. This gives 20-100 gear inch range on a 26" wheel. An XT running 48/36/26 to 11-34 gives 20-108 gear inches.

    First impressions
    Around town it is quite ergonomic. On a recliner you have to use gears more and inevitably would change on a triple between big and mid ring quite a lot. A typical push would be around from Tollcross up to Lauriston where you may be held half way up hill at lights. With all gears on one shifter you maintain cadence.

    On longer ride on Sunday I tailed a couple of road bikes and was able to hit sudden uphills and keep cadence. Later on I went by a guy on an uphill as his compact double 'jump' took a double shift.

    On environmental front - industry of course could just make a mega range on 10 speed albeit the gaps would be too great for sports. SRAM Eagle is aimed at mountain biking and is supplied with tiny 34t front chain ring.

    Has the industry gone too far?
    Any other single ring derailleur users? Revolution Courier did the single ring thing with 8 speed - but range would have been 300% as oppossed to SRAM GX at 500%

    Nazca Fuego / SRAM Eagle 12 speed
    Nazca Fuego / SRAM Eagle 12 speed

    Examples of 'rear chainrings' here. https://www.bike-discount.de/en/shop/12-speed-18531

    Posted 5 years ago #

  2. dougal
    Member

    I hoped the title was in reference to some bicycle-themed ninja throwing stars. I'd watch that superhero: Bicycle Ninja! Dressed all in black!

    Posted 5 years ago #

  3. Kenny
    Member

    At the danger of misunderstanding your post, you're talking about more than just recumbent bikes, right? I have a cross bike with a 1x11, so if you're looking for opinions on that...

    Posted 5 years ago #

  4. wingpig
    Member

    I almost never use the inner and outer rings on my geared bike, but never got further than having a chainguard in place of the outer ring for a year or so prior to my last drivetrain replacement. Even though changing the front gear was clunky (sometimes requiring nudging the chain with a toe) I would like the option of a lower gear for situations like hills-with-child-on-seat or bagsful-of-shopping-when-under-the-weather.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  5. LaidBack
    Member

    @Kenny
    Any sort of opinion is good!
    Are front mechs going to be history on all formats? E-bikes don't need them. Lightweight road bikes neither - or do they?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  6. deckard112
    Member

    I've recently bought a bike for winter training/commuting which has the SRAM 1x Rival groupset. Took a bit of getting used to but it works well. It has a 44 front ring and 42/11 rear cassette, main 'issue' I've noticed is you'll start to spin out above 35mph (so on a descent really) and there are larger gaps in the gear changes at the lower end although that's not troubled me really.

    My main reason for going this way was less mechanical issues to worry about over winter with road crud/salt so only one derailleur to clean.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  7. LaidBack
    Member

    @deckard112 Yes - spinning out is downside. Sram trying to plug that with 10t.
    Front mechs on road bikes are in spray zone so seem to be prone. On recumbents they stay cleaner but you carry two and half chains to get 'the power' to back wheel!

    @wingpig With bike trade they start with high price stuff in new format but prices come down. A 10 speed single ring bike with 11-36 on back could be ok for practical use. 5 bolt chainring set up could be a 39t. With friction shift you could run by feel alone. XT stuff though lasts and stays in tune. Equivalent hub gear would be Alfine I suppose.
    One forumer has a Nuvinci hub and that's 380 % of range. (now Envelio).

    Posted 5 years ago #

  8. Kenny
    Member

    @LaidBack

    Ok, so I have a Boardman CX Bike. Got it when my previous CX (which I use for commuting, and never for CX) got nicked, that was a Cannondale CAADX.

    Honestly, this Boardman is absolutely fantastic, the brakes are tremendous, but the 1x11 (44T) combined with the 10-42T cassette gives me all the range I need. Yes, my Cervelo has a higher top end speed but how often do you really get in that gear? And I can easily maintain 25mph on the flat on the top gear of the Boardman (if no headwind, obvs ;) ), while the smallest gear gets me up the steepest hill no bother.

    I absolutely hate front mechs, so going without one is a dream.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  9. prog99
    Member

    I've used a courier for the last 3 1/2 years with no issues. Don't miss the extra range and the chain and cassette definitely lasted longer. Shame they don't make them any more.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  10. fimm
    Member

    No front mech seems to be way things are going on mountain bikes, according to mr fimm.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The last time a front mech died on me I didn't have a spare so I just stuck the chain on the middle ring and took it off awaiting the replacement. 12-34 8-speed cassette. Didn't really miss it round town apart from the swoop down Minto Street and one wee bit uphill if I had shopping.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  12. steveo
    Member

    Looking at getting SRAM 1x11 for the CDF can't get the range I want with my current mix of Sora and mtb kit. I like the CDF but its too high geared for off-road trips with luggage.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  13. ARobComp
    Member

    I run one by on my MTB . I'm about to order a Sunrace 11-46 which should run with my shimano set ups. the 46 should allow me to ride up vertical things.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  14. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    My tyen year old EBC Courier came with a one by eight. It used to drop the chain a lot until I replaced the chainring, mech and cassette with better quality ones. I think bottom gear is 40x34.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  15. earthowned
    Member

    I had an old EBC courier as well which dropped the chain always at the worst possible moments. I'm sure it did it on purpose. I put a dog tooth chain catcher on which helped.

    I've now got a SRAM 1x11 set up which has never dropped a chain in 2 years of use. Jinxed it now haven't I?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  16. Juanito
    Member

    I love the 1x on my pinnacle arkose. Even like the bar end shifter that makes it all work.

    It initially came without a narrow wide ring on front and a chain keeper. The chain keeper broke off a year or two ago, and I dropped chains almost daily until I took a few links out the chain and popped a narrow wide on.

    Range is okay, as I only really commute on it. 38t at front and 11 x 36 at back (10 speed). Thinking about getting a 11 x 42 cassette as shimano make a cheap (ish) one, increasing the size of the front ring to stop spinning out, but then I'm not sure I need or want to go faster.

    Talking of spinning, the gaps between gears seem okay, but I have found lately that it's often much more efficient to almost spin out before gearing down.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  17. mcairney
    Member

    The Boardman CX is a beast and fantastic value for money in that it fits in under the C2W scheme. The one compromise is that there can be bigger gaps between gears but I can live with that.

    EDIT: The one downside is the wide-range cassette can be a bit pricey to replace compared to a standard cassette

    I did have a Revolution Courier with an 8-speed and I did find that it's range was a bit narrow- it definitely would have benefitted from an extra gear at each end (though this would no doubt have significantly increased it's cost given it was only about £300-ish)

    Posted 5 years ago #

  18. wingpig
    Member

    I suppose I could replace the freehubs on my three surviving rear wheels to allow me to move up to *10 or *11 whilst still using my bar-end eight-speed shifter in friction mode if ranges like 10-42 are going to be available, but I'll probably wait until the two nine-speed cassettes in the cupboard have been installed and used up.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  19. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Are 1x chainrings cheaper, relatively speaking, that their double or triple counterparts? Have always found replacing chainrings inordinately expensive compared to cassettes (which are often cheap as chips unless very high spec).

    Posted 5 years ago #

  20. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    It initially came without a narrow wide ring

    What is a narrow wide ring?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  21. Arellcat
    Moderator

    They're made by Schrödinger Inc. They are a superposition of sizes when you buy them, and only upon fitting to the bike are they either suitable or unsuitable.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    What is a narrow wide ring?

    I assumed this was tech chat and was too ashamed to ask.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  23. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Dave, GX Eagle is bloody excellent and more than a match for your recumbents if my MTB set-up is anything to go by.

    Front derailleurs are dead for MTB and gravel. But Euro (Belg/Dutch) crossers will keep using front mechs (so they can change ratio quickly in the gloop) and road will have front mechs for the rest of time.

    There are no chain retention issues on the road and the small gaps and big range is essential to efficient bunch riding, coupled with slow climbs and fast descents that you get in road racing. However, many leisure road riders may start moving to 1x, because big gaps aren't a big deal if you're not racing.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  24. LaidBack
    Member

    After a slow start this thread really got going, Thanks to all...

    @Cyclingmollie @iwrats Yes - the 'narrow wide' teeth profile the chain which has inner and outer plates. This saves chain falling off on single ring bikes. It's what my daughter's Dawes Duchess 7 speed bike would have benefited from. I lost count of the number of times it dropped off front ring causing her hands to get oily (some teenage girls aren't so relaxed about getting oil on hands and clothes!). I did shorten chain and it worked better. Then bike got nicked so someone else's problem.
    Same problem dogged the Courier and people fitted chain keepers as the tension of a rear mech alone wasn't enough.

    @Harts Cyclery - good overview - of course having a mech and compact double allows a rapid ratio change when traction is an issue.

    @Kenny and @Others too many to name.
    Nice to hear the pros and (few) cons. We had Hungarian carbon company wanting to fit 11-46 with a 50 on front. This is too high for practical use on a recumbent (yes I did say that!). Maybe 46T could be useable but @nobrakes near Gala found it far too optimistic - and he's 20 years younger than me.
    Goes back to 'ring sizes matter' in the marketing of a bike. As someone said, for many the big ring is used less than 20% of the time and generally with little power into it as it's topping up a downhill or level tailwind. Middle chain rings of 42 or 39 get hammered.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  25. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Harts Cyclery: Phew, I don't feel such a numpty now for having spent £300 putting a compact on my CX bike last year. (It was a triple before.)

    Both my MTBs are 1x: Shimano 1x10 on the hardtail, SRAM 1x11 on the eMTB. I usually have little idea which sprocket I'm on, there's too many to keep track! Instead I use the "empirical gear indicator": if it won't change up any more then I must be on the smallest, if it won't change down any more then I must be on the biggest. That is a nice thing about 1x: no niggling worries about cross-chaining.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  26. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @ejstubbs

    How strong are 1x10 and 1x11 chains and cassettes? I fantasise that they must be a bit wafty. I like to have plenty steel in my drivetrain.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  27. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    the 'narrow wide' teeth profile the chain which has inner and outer plates

    I can see how that would work but couldn't the tooth/chain synchronisation get messed up from time to time?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  28. ejstubbs
    Member

    I've not experienced any hint of a problem so far. In "turbo" mode my eMTB will threaten to flip me over backwards going up slopes I wouldn't have a hope in hell of riding up unassisted - even standing on the pedals my non-assisted MTB simply wouldn't move. Bear in mind as well that the eMTB weighs 25kg, what with the motor & the battery. Basically, it puts a heck of a lot more torque through that rear wheel (=tension in the chain) than I ever could, and I've not had a hint of a complaint from the drivetrain.

    Of course chain maintenance will make a lot of difference on an MTB, given the sh1te and muck that gets thrown at it.

    (On Sunday I was out for a wee stravaig around the Braid Hills and the Mortonhall estate. When I got home the first thing I did was to hose the bike down. The next thing I did was to take off all my outer layers, and my wee rucksack, and chuck them in the washing machine - after rinsing the worst of the clart off in the kitchen sink first. My shoes and even my helmet needed a good rinse off in the sink, too. Last night I was giving the chain a much more thorough clean and lube, and still pulling astonishing amounts of crud out of it. Power washing it would probably have got more out first time around but it's not good for the chain link bearings, or any other bearings on the bike that happen to get a direct jet. Memo to self: look at getting an ass saver or similar saddle-height mudguard.)

    Posted 5 years ago #

  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    On Sunday I was out for a wee stravaig around the Braid Hills and the Mortonhall estate.

    My training ground...for running. Guy clarty kind at the minute.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  30. Kenny
    Member

    there can be bigger gaps between gears but I can live with that

    This was one of my main concerns before I bought it, but tbh I have now found that the spacing is better than on my road bike - I often find I have to jump two gears at once on that, whereas on the Boardman CX I am never in no-mans land in terms of not having a gear that works.

    11-46 with a 50

    Oh goodness me that does sound quite high. I would def agree that dropping the front to a 46 would be the way to go.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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