Does anyone know when this is likely to actually happen?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Pavement Parking Ban
(40 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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I have no hope that it will actually be enforced, which makes that fairly irrelevant, sadly, (what a downer of a first post on CCE! I will do better next time)
Posted 5 years ago # -
I was driven off course by the pavement of Morrison Street on Saturday. Couple of pints and smart shoes right enough but pavement outside the row of eateries smashed and dished like someone had driven a battle tank over it.
Ribena - welcome and good tone for post one. Skepticism is appropriate here.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@wishicouldgofaster: Does anyone know when this is likely to actually happen?
It needs to be passed in to law first. I've not heard anything about a bill being put forward so far, and I've no doubt the gammons would be out in force in the media if/when that happens (reference the workplace parking levy). CORRECTION: the bill was mentioned, and linked to, in this previous thread on the subject.
I now recall being very unhappy to see the exemption for parking on the footway for the purpose of making deliveries. FFS, that's where half the problem comes from! Especially the pavement damage, as highlighted by IWRATS, since it's usually larger vehicles that are used for deliveries. And it's not as if existing exemptions for deliveries are routinely observed, or enforced.
I think it might still end up in the "too difficult" pile, even if the legislation is passed. IIRC (it might have been mentioned on a previous CCE thread on this subject, or in a link from one of the posts) legislation was passed in Westminster back in the ?1970s/1980s? to allow local authorities to ban parking on the footway, but the catch was that they had to work out all the places that it should be explicitly allowed (because cars and vans, of course) before they could implement the ban. That, of course, was too expensive and time-consuming and I think the legislation has since been quietly dropped.
Although, London managed to do it (under different legislation) and from my time spent living there I can't offhand remember anywhere where parking on the footway was permitted (though I'm sure there are some places). On that evidence, it shouldn't be much work. If I was the person responsible in a local authority I'd want to be able to start off from the default position that it's illegal anywhere, and then consider representations regarding special cases, with a rapid process for ruling yea or nay.
Full disclosure: my neighbour always parks his manhood-extensionmobile with two wide, low profile tyres half on the pavement outside his house (I can't believe that actually does them, or the kerb stones, any good). It seems that there's no room on his drive for a second car with his Range Rover on it - except, magically, when his family visit and park there with no problem at all. He's got plumbers in at the moment and I've been really quite impressed that they manage to park their two transits - which are wider than Mr Grumpy Gammon's BMW - wholly on the carriageway. I secretly long for the day when he's told that he has to park his entitlementmobile responsibly.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I took a completely pointless rage photo of pavement parking last week. A line of about a dozen vehicles parked exactly half on the pavement, half covering the cycle lane on Gilmerton Road. In terms of pavement parking it's nowhere near the most offensive even on that one road but still, it set me off.
Posted 5 years ago # -
The ban on pavement parking is included in the Transport (Scotland) Bill, which is currently being considered by the Scottish Parliament. The Bill has been delayed a bit by the decision to introduce the workplace parking levy as an amendment. I imagine the Bill will become law by the end of this year.
However, the ban on pavement parking will probably not come into force for quite a time after this - to allow local authorities time to survey streets and identify those that they wish to exempt from the prohibition. My gut feeling is local authorities would be given around 18 months to two years to do this - so ban in force some time in 2021/22. Just a guess mind.
Posted 5 years ago # -
A great learning for me is that things are only really illegal if the forces of order are willing to enforce them.
A dog control order can be triggered if a dog causes you 'apprehension' but the cops told me it pretty much had to bite your face off before they'd do anything so that law might as well not exist.
Kind of imagining pavement parking being in that category.
Posted 5 years ago # -
It really depends on whether society gets over it's feeling that fining law breakers is somehow unfair if they used a motor vehicle to break the law. It is almost as if society genuinely believes it's impossible to own a motor vehicle while remaining on the right side of the law.
If society can correct this mental block it becomes simple to solve the issue as enforcement can become self funding.
Of course I realise there are risks involved with such methods and that society largely isn't the people who live and vote in a democratic country.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Of course, we wouldn't need a law against parking on the footway if it could somehow be accepted that the number of people with access to cranes with which they can place their vehicles on the footway without illegally driving them there is, to all intents and purposes, a big fat zero.
But it would still need to be enforced...
Posted 5 years ago # -
I had a fairly good natured rant at Deidre Brock about this when the first draft of the Bill came out. She didn't believe me when I explained the list of exemptions until I pulled out the relevant copies of the bill from my pannier. She confessed (possibly for appearance sake) to be as baffled as me and admitted that they made things worse.
I understand the list of exemptions has been culled to be less nonsense, but I've not looked at the revision.
If they make it acceptable to physically attack any pavement parked car, then i think it would self-police.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Note to self: start carrying copies of parliamentary bills in pannier.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Is it just me getting the feeling that pavement parking is becoming so habitual for some drivers that they think it's actually *necessary* (as opposed to just "acceptable when it suits me")? I keep seeing vehicles parked with two wheels on the pavement in what looks like a token "considerate" gesture to other drivers – it doesn't actually change the space available in the road in any material way and I can't see any other reason for it.
Anyway, yes, I also harbour dismal hopes of a ban ever being enforced. Wouldn't be much of a challenge to introduce robust citizen reporting systems, but as long as "fining law breakers is somehow unfair if they used a motor vehicle to break the law" as acsimpson aptly says, not much hope.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Iain McR - The list of exemptions to the pavement parking ban can't be changed until "Stage 2" consideration of the Bill by the Scottish Parliament's Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, which hasn't started yet.
Even then, an MSP has to submit an amendment for consideration by the Committee - which it must approve before inclusion in the Bill. No guarantee there will any significant changes. Although I imagine the Greens will propose removing some exemptions - particularly the 20-minutes for "loading", which currently renders any ban meaningless.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Last Thursday just after 12.15pm the entire quality bike corridor from Chinese Double Parking to Summerhall had vehicles parked in it. having a laff
Posted 5 years ago # -
"Chinese Double Parking"
Love that this has a name. It's so annoying and so constant.
I've never seen a drop of enforcement along that road, very frustrating.
Posted 5 years ago # -
All done on a double yellow line too. In some ways I salute them for saying We are anarchists who will double park two of our vehicles at all times of the day and night and you will never touch us
Also on the same double yellow line - important medical supplies that must get delivered in in same daily emergency every day to lloyds pharmacy - oh wait, the parcel is so tiny the van driver could have parked legally round the corner and given it to a two year old to deliver to the chemist and get paid with a lollipop.
Also to move from ratcliffe terrace I watched delivery to pharmacy in Balerno during last farmers market which involved the delivery driver driving through the market to deliver a small envelope worth of drugs. There is a large car park 50 metres from the chemist but wait pharmacy deliveries are obviously vital. Else why would you drive through a farmers market?
Posted 5 years ago # -
'a token "considerate" gesture to other drivers'
Indeed. What irks about these sorts of gestures is the complete lack of any consideration for pedestrians. Drivers only care what other drivers think of them, it would appear. Everyone else who is not driving can go hang...
Posted 5 years ago # -
Yes! This is what drives me so batty about it – it's hitting the worst of all worlds by not actually doing anything remotely useful for other drivers, while actually substantially inconveniencing anyone on the pavements. And then there's what it implies about the sheer extent of the casual erosion of the last car-free space in cities.
Posted 5 years ago # -
The lack of action has normalised pavement parking. Even in streets where there is a parking lane practically everyone parks partly on the pavement.
The police will occasionally take action if someone takes up all the pavement but even then that is very rare.
Posted 5 years ago # -
A lot of footway parking can be prosecuted now if the will was there - ALL vehicles over 7.5T GVW - illegal to drive & park on footway S.19 RTA 1988 Obstruction section 129.2 Roads Sc 1984 s.137 Highways 1980 and S.28 Town Police Clauses 1847 Plus parking restrictions extend to outer edge of the footway unless otherwise noted
Posted 5 years ago # -
Not quite pavement parking but unsatisfactory nonetheless
Posted 5 years ago # -
If this is where I think it is, I believe the drivers are supposed to be in radio contact somehow, so that they can make sure they don't pass each other on the wrong section of road.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Frenchy, interesting, thanks. Doesn't seem to be working judging by the video.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Reading through this thread I then gather that for pavement parking you can (a) complain to the police; (b) don't expect them to take any action.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Pretty much, aye.
Couple of caveats:
If the vehicle isn't causing an obstruction, they won't take action. "Causing an obstruction" seems to mean "Prevents someone with a wheelchair or buggy getting past".
If there are yellow lines on the adjacent road, then the council can also ticket the vehicle, even if it's parked entirely on the pavement.
Posted 5 years ago # -
If there are yellow lines on the adjacent road, then the council can also ticket the vehicle, even if it's parked entirely on the pavement.
Emphasis on "can". Every time I've seen folk on Twitter reporting pavement parking on double yellows to @edinhelp, they come back 24 hours later and say "this is a matter for Police Scotland, please call 101"
Posted 5 years ago # -
And yet on the other parking thread we had the story of the "livid law lecturer" who did get a ticket from the council for parking on the footway in a double yellow area.
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12775&page=21
I think what actually needs to happen is that the folks who man @edinhelp and 101 need to be told by their management not to fob off the people who pay their wages with uninformed excuses for not taking any action.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Also worth noting that the council can't enforce yellow lines on privately owned streets, such as Charles Street.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Thanks everyone. Someone sent in a picture showing a car parked on a pavement leaving enough space for a thin person walking sideways to get past.
Posted 5 years ago # -
A bit of a success in relation to parking at my mothers.
E-mail received from the police today :)
'Further to our phone conversation today I can confirm that I have been to Dochart Drive regarding the parking issue you have raised. I have spoken to the keeper of a vehicle that was parked on the pavement and will continue to monitor the situation.'
Posted 5 years ago #
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