28 lanes and still did not solve congestion!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
XR Scotland closing North Bridge April 16th
(117 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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I'd expect to see bigger queues either end if that were the case but perhaps you're right. I know that traffic evaporation happens in the long term, but practically speaking the second eg. you shut Leith Street you're surely not going to see 100% modal switch/journey abandonment overnight, particularly at rush hour. Perhaps it happens a lot more quickly than I expect though (or maybe the overspill is spread so thinly that it's not noticable?)
As I say, I really must dig into traffic count data to see if anything can be gleaned from the Leith St closure. The Open Streets events should also help to provide data about this stuff if traffic elsewhere is monitored effectively.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@mgj, they might have been arrested for that, but the charges might be different when they're brought up before the Beak.
Section 38(1) of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010 has a statutory definition of Breach of the Peace which is different from the common law definition, and has potentially harsher penalties too.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“The mere fact that they managed to find time and resource to arrest any of these protesters shows the extent to which fossil fuel consumption is protected by the state.”
I think that’s ‘accidental’, but it certainly demonstrates how skewed priorities are.
If it's accidental then it's the same sort of accident which leads to complaints about dangerously close passes being brushed under the carpet.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@acsimpson I made the same point on Twitter - I've been told that driving through a give way sign towards a cyclist and missing them by 1-2 inches isn't an offence. But sitting quietly on the road is a public order offence, which can land you 5 years in prison and a £1000 fine.
EDIT: Oh, 12 months and/or £5000 fine - I didn't see the earlier link...Priorities...
Posted 5 years ago # -
@jonty
I think induced-demand takes around 2 to 4 years to materialise. So I imagine it's the same for evaporation.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"I think induced-demand takes around 2 to 4 years to materialise."
That'll be why the Queensferry Crossing has been congested since it opened then.
"So I imagine it's the same for evaporation."
Recent closures such as Leith Street, festival related closures, and yesterday's North Bridge would seem to suggest otherwise.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I think traffic evaporation can be instantaneous, especially if there's sufficiently hysterical coverage in the media beforehand. There have been several examples of predictions of 'carmageddon' in the US when major roads were due to be closed, that have ended in pretty much normal traffic levels, as people take measures to avoid the widely advertised chaos.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@crowriver - the capacity of the QC is negligibly higher than the FRB though, so there wasn't much induction to be done there.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Yeah QC is obviously still congested because the right decision was made about not increasing capacity. If they had gone to three lanes, 2-4 years feels like about the right amount of time it would take to fill up again (maybe sooner if Scotrail's reputation continued to deteriorate!)
As I say, with Leith St etc it's not really clear how much is evaporation and how much is route shift spread around the city. I started commuting from the South on the exact day it shut so I find it hard to judge, but practically speaking there must have been some. North/South bridge were obviously quieter than now, which was lovely, but George IV Bridge I think has quietened down since it's re-opened and I've no idea if it was a year of hellcommutes for Queen's Drive cyclists. (Conversely, I swear there are fewer tailbacks on North Bridge throughout the day now, so either Picardy Place is working more efficiently (lol) or there has been some residual evaporation.)
I'm clearly in favour of city centre closures (and do believe in traffic evaporation) but it would be good to know whether in doing so we're just displacing traffic and air quality issues to Holyrood Park for a few years. Knowing that could form part of an argument for tweaking LEZ rules or using Transformation money to beef up the active travel provision in the Park.
Posted 5 years ago # -
How many blood pressure pills should one take before reading that?
Posted 5 years ago # -
What I found massively interesting about the closure was how little traffic there was in Newington and other streets leading up to it due to the closure. It shows how much of the traffic is just wanting to go through and isn't interested in accessing anything in the city centre.
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Frenchy
None. It's just childish gibberish.
Posted 5 years ago # -
It does highlight the importance of staying on message for the protesters when speaking to the media though, and not becoming like Occupy Wall Street with 50,000 different ideas.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
Three people have been put on remand for a month over an Extinction Rebellion protest in which activists climbed on top of a train at Canary Wharf station in east London.
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Posted 5 years ago # -
Scotland Yard took the rare step of releasing a detailed statement setting out the difficulties they have faced keeping control of the protests, while avoiding infringing on the activists’ rights to demonstrate.
They said demonstrators’ tactic of lying down meant four officers were needed to make an arrest but said there was no legal justification for more draconian tactics, such as kettling and mass-arresting groups, because the demonstrations were peaceful.
“
Posted 5 years ago # -
@chdot - link needs to lose the final " to work
Posted 5 years ago # -
Thanks.
Sorted.
Posted 5 years ago # -
STV's Scotland Tonight on Tuesday had a very articulate young XR supporter explaining why the action to pedestrianise North Bridge for a couple of hours was justified. Journalist Anna Burnside took a view saying maybe it was, but tone was a bit dismissive.
Her view was that it was broadly agreed that the world will change completely but that it was not an emergency for many here (yet).To underline that it's 'business as usual' the next news item was the arrival of the A380 Airbus on Emirates route to Glasgow. (Edinburgh only has Boeing 777s on route).
Glasgow Airport might have no tram or rail link, but Scotland's second busiest airport allocated £8 million to build infrastructure to service the Emirates double decker 'super-jumbo'.
Cost per mile / per passenger on A380 is lower than many planes though any supposed environmental credentials are damaged by the vast shopping mall that awaits at Dubai.Posted 5 years ago # -
Cost per mile / per passenger on A380 is lower than many planes
If full
But then I can't really talk my flying miles are significantly above average
Posted 5 years ago # -
Posted 5 years ago #
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Looking forward to a car free city.
Chimes in with points made in forum (expletives in this article btw).
XR showed that diy pedestrianising a street or two can be done.
In city centre the sheer amount of tourists also results in an unofficial shared use zone in Lawnmarket. Police don't seem to mind traffic inconvenienced here though.
If CEC do road closures I assume this should be a precursor to more major ones? (Should not assume anything though as primacy of private vehicles is taken as read).
https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/04/17/car-free-futures/Posted 5 years ago # -
Saw a fair few cars around the three metre length.in mallorca
Single occupant cars in medieval city centre's should all be under three metres long
Posted 5 years ago # -
Having read the Bella article, I was reminded to take a look at what the car free days plan for May the 5th actually is. When I eventually found anything beyond old and vague articles whipping up drivist anger in the EEN, I was very disappointed. The Royal Mile, a couple of side streets, the part of Grassmarket which is already supposed to be a pedestrian zone, and Victoria Street.
All of those should be pedestrianised all the time, not just 10am-5pm one Sunday a month. I understand the plan is to work up to an old town loop, but why oh why could we not start off with something more ambitious which would actually show the benefits rather than just giving the selfish drivers something to grumble about without really making a difference for people who enjoy getting out of their cars.
I was naively expecting something like the area bordered by Princes Street, North/South Bridge, Lauriston Place, and Melville Drive (excluding all those roads, naturally, wouldn't want to go too far!!) to be free of cars and full of people, and to have it extend well in to the evening for sunshine-filled pints/coffee/dinner outside of all the pubs and restaurants, with a quiet, chilled out vibe.
But who would want to live in a city which does things like that?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Blatant thread bump but this could be the most myopic EEN headline ever:
Posted 4 years ago #
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