“can allow“
Encourage even?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Picardy Place lanes taking shape
(527 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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I always scored better with a half set than a full set.
Posted 4 years ago # -
When one is seriously considering asking if there's a plan view of a junction with animation showing the signal phases so that you can work out if there is any practical benefit in attempting to use the new infrastructure one might as well admit defeat and just stick to the road. Even the jughandle and taxi-protrusion tram-delaying system at Haymarket could be worked out by riding it a few times, but Picardy Place seems to need a checklist to determine whether the road, footway or cycle path would be most effective based on the traffic levels and current position in the light sequence.
I'll possibly try it with a child next week when they're off school for half-term, but I was really wanting to get them used to normal big/obvious stop line/lighting sequences first before subjecting them to a demoralising 360° hazard extravaganza.
Posted 4 years ago # -
A "mere" 2 minutes 20 seconds of waiting to get across the island of lost souls
I didn't time it myself on Saturday, but good grief I spent ages waiting at the Picardy Place crossing.
In fact, when I was waiting earlier to cross Greenside, a lot of people started crossing before the green man came on. The timings really do seem very long.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“The timings really do seem very long”
Mustn’t delay motorists.
‘They’ have never managed to have sensible timings at top of Dublin Street or WAR by the zigzag.
OR even let lights change when there are pedestrians waiting and NO motor traffic.
ThisIsEdinburgh = ‘traffic flow prioritised’.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Is there going to be a cycle lane through Multrees Walk, so that you can get from St Andrew Square to the York Place lane relaticely smoothly? Perhaps a link from James Craig walk, if it ever re-opens?
Posted 4 years ago # -
“ Is there going to be a cycle lane through Multrees Walk”
I’d say that’s highly unlikely - private land. The management would probably ban pedestrians not intending to shop in one of their overpriced shops if they could...
Posted 4 years ago # -
@wingpig, it would be quite a cool software tool actually. Something like a clock face where you can enter different entry/exit points in an abstract way, then annotate them with timings, and it gives you the optimum strategy.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Sounds like the basis of a phone game, where the aim is to find the signal sequence in which free-flowing pedestrians are made to take longer to get through than mutually-impassable motor vehicles.
At the moment, the southbound lane past the giraffes has the clear advantage over the roadway of being able to take you past a stop line (if the light is red, or the traffic gummed without the width to filter). I haven't yet worked out what the other bits of lane can offer. Possibly the left turn onto the new lane from the Paolozzi foot to York Place could get past another stop line, or possibly even avoid a sharp-corner-with-cars-following-close-behind-in-the-rain?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Is there any other sphere of public life where government delivers stuff for the benefit of a group that then has to investigate to work out if what was delivered has any practical use to them?
It is surreally bleak.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@IWRATS: the welfare and benefits system.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I've never been convinced that that was for the benefit of the recipients. And money always has some utility.
The Island of Lost Souls Cycle Network on the other hand....
Posted 4 years ago # -
"government delivers stuff for the benefit of a group"
Was that really the purpose of the exercise? Really?
Or was it rather box-ticking tokenistic lip service?
Hmmm....
Posted 4 years ago # -
The Scot Gov Reporter's Report on the RSO/TRO for Picardy Place's neighbour, Leith Street, has finally been published - delayed due to an oversight in February when the decision letter was published.
It's ROD-203-1 at Leith St Report
or this might work for direct access to a copy
Leith Street report - documentPosted 4 years ago # -
Went from Broughton Street to Leith Street in the gloaming. Learnings;
1) The advance green gives you about a metre head start uphill on Broughton.
2) The pink paint on the turn in front of the Playhouse....well I don't think I could physically ride on it. It'll just fill up with gravel and bits of car.
3) Accessing the cycle lane in front of the Omni seemed difficult and pointless.Overall verdict: slightly safer than before because of the traffic lights, otherwise a waste of money.
Posted 4 years ago # -
The best route now is to use the crossings to go directly over the island. It makes crossing the gyratory traffic-free.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Posted 4 years ago #
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Absolutely staggering line in the latest NTBCC report on Broughton Street. "Even if there were space for a cycle way in Broughton Street" - but there isn't, because it is required for a 'general traffic artery' - "it would be irresponsible to encourage cycling which discharges into a dangerous gyratory traffic system."
Given that most pavements on Broughton Street "discharge" into unpleasant, uncontrolled crossings, perhaps it would be simplest to remove the pavements too so as to eliminate even the slightest temptation any non-motorist might have to engage in risky activity like attempting to travel from A to B.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yes, the section on cycling is nonsense. NTBCC have come out with guff like this in the past. There are now crossings available so you don't need to cycle round the gyratory if you don't want to.
Also, the two lanes at the top of Broughton Street are often effectively made into one by loading or parked traffic, so I'm not sure reducing to one lane to make space for a cycle lane would have much effect on congestion.
They also seem to ignore the fact that a cyclist may be on their way to Broughton Street to spend money. They seem to want be people to go to Broughton Street rather than pass through, but without inconveniencing the cars that are just passing through.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yes - it has its faults but the gyratory is arguably safer for cyclists than what came before.
I presume their proposed "discourage cycling by making it risky" policy has involved careful consultation with businesses and, er lawyers. Not sure how it looks if someone gets hit and they can prove that the road was unsafe by design?
Posted 3 years ago # -
The gyratory was designed for a laugh. The people who caused it to exist are literally pointing and laughing at us.
Anyone tried the Pink Slingshot Manoeuvre yet? Drink on me for the first one makes it in rush-hour conditions.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I honestly don't think I have seen a cyclist on the pavement on Broughton Street but they mention this as a danger to pedestrians.
Posted 3 years ago # -
This is not Nam, there are rules.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Interesting ‘artist’s impression’ at No. 3
Posted 3 years ago # -
You have to admire the "shared use" sign in the Causey illustration in that article which instructs that you should cycle on the footway and walk in the roadway.
Given that the footway appears that it will have nice large smooth paving slabs, and the roadway will still have nasty juddery cobbles «sigh» (I hope this will be changed if the project ever happens for real), this seems the only sensible course of action.
Can we just say a big "no" to any more cobbles anywhere, and require smooth flush and gapless Dutch-style paviors in any new re(construction)? Cobbles absolutely suck for accessibility for not only cycling, but also for wheelchair and pushchair users and people who have difficulties walking.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Got a window seat at the John Lewis cafe today - great view over Picardy Place and down Leith Walk. Watching cyclists weave through the gyratory (on a quiet Sunday, during daylight) was an eye opener - they were just so exposed amongst the multiple lanes of traffic. There didn't seem to be any obvious way for cyclists to traverse the gyratory using the "cycle infrastructure" due to tram works.
I know we all know this - but this will be a blight on the city for years to come. Having now seen this from above - anyone who thinks the gyratory could possibly be home to events is simply crackers.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Having now seen this from above - anyone who thinks the gyratory could possibly be home to events is simply crackers.
Do not fear. When I raised this with the Council officials/design team at one of the pre-build public information sessions they told me that the design could be adjusted after a few years to take out the bit of the gyratory in front of the cathedral. I rolled my eyes so hard they almost got stuck.
Now the things is built I honestly can't see how that would be possible, short of closing the top end of Leith Street to all motorised traffic.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I can't remember what on earth I was doing down Leith but I was driving back from there a few weeks ago, that whole area felt very unsafe. (in a fauxX4 no chance I'd take bike round that)
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've felt okay doing it lycra-ed up on a road bike, but you really have to be confident, assertive and take primary. It isn't something I'd want to do on my town bike. The designers will tell us that's what the segregated bikelanes are for.
The traffic lights make it better than the old roundabout, in that you can be more confident that a driver's not going to plough into the junction having not looked properly.
However, I have seen a lot of car drivers obviously confused by which lane they should be in and which traffic light applies to them. That's especially true for those drivers heading towards Broughton Street - on several occasions I've observed cars go through a red light because they've mistaken the green for York Place as the light applying to them. At some point someone will hit something/someone heading from York Place towards Leith Walk or crossing the ped crossing at the top of Broughton Street.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I walked it last time I went through. Jumped off halfway through in a panic when going from leith st to broughton because I couldn't see what I was supposed to do, and then just walked it when going the other way. Might try it on e-bike, but not otherwise.
Posted 2 years ago #
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