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Hanging-up bikes on trains - possible risks & MHOR 1992 (safe limits)

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  1. Tulyar
    Member

    Preparing notes on cycle stowage on trains (and buses/coaches) with special reference to the bike hanging systems on Azumas, HST's, Class 156, and Voyagers, and how these may leave train operators exposed to claims, and Section 3 liabilities (HSAW 1974) through requiring passengers to lift loads outside the safe envelopes defined by Manual Handling Regs (MHOR 1992)

    You can send me reports, photos of on train results (bikes won't fit, can't be lifted, & especially videos of bikes crashing around, because design does not hold them secure.

    Could also send images to to @BCCletts twitter account.

    Some albums here

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/72157666548592209
    (Voyagers)

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/albums/72157694917891391
    (Class 156)

    HST & IEP to follow when I get time to do this

    Posted 5 years ago #

  2. amir
    Member

    I had such a terrible experience trying to hang an 24 kg e bike (with flat bars) in a narrow cupboard that I was too flustered to take a picture.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  3. LivM
    Member

    My husband had to load both our bikes (mine a heavy ebike) plus 15kg trailer onto an LNER at York where there were hanging hooks. (While I wrangled our son and luggage onto train). Hard work and stressful given that the train wants to leave!

    Posted 5 years ago #

  4. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    I managed to get a clarty stain on my cycle top hanging mine up on the Glasgow to Oban train :(

    Posted 5 years ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    I guess hooks bad at best of time tho the slow Glasgow train can be good.

    I just go for front wheel rather than inverting as per instructions

    I don’t think hooks imagined in future that 24kg e bikes would be hanging off them?

    I am in Warwickshire seeking a pint of Hook Norton Mild (2.8%)

    Hooky recently played Albert hall with orchestra. He now plays his bass below his ankles using a special dais. [platform]

    Posted 5 years ago #

  6. Tulyar
    Member

    Please document, complain and if damage/harm arises document & report.

    2 legal issues, & CUK is checking the level at which each might warrant testing

    a) Civil claim - harm to person/property

    b) Section 3 HSAWA 1974 - failure in duty of care towards non employee

    Same issues apply to new Scotrail HST's - Class 156 and Voyagers - especially Cross Country ones.

    I'll see if I can collate this and/or provide specific address to e-mail with details per LNER, Scotrail, Cross Country plus Hitachi (they supply trains ready to operate to LNER/TPE/GWR/Hull Trains) and Beacon Rail (similar contract with Virgin & Cross Country)

    Posted 5 years ago #

  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Do train operating companies, LNER, Virgin et al, have a duty to make provision to carry bicycles?

    I sometimes often worry that if enough people complained about substandard or potentially injurious cycle provision and rules the pertaining to stowage, the companies might very well refuse all carriage of bikes, remove the hooks, and add shelves to revert the spaces to 'conventional' luggage.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  8. Morningsider
    Member

    Arellcat - I know that Abellio are required to provide spaces for bikes on most routes as a contractual requirement, as specified in the ScotRail franchise agreement - the only exception being some of the more elderly Strathclyde electrics, where bikes can be carried in vestibules. Abellio would need permission from Transport Scotland to change this requirement.

    I imagine similar arrangements are in place for other franchises, which are managed by the DfT.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  9. Tulyar
    Member

    @gembo You're in for a wee shock then - all the trains heading for Glasgow these days are electric, mostly the new Hitachi ones.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  10. gembo
    Member

    @Tulyar, Caramba thanks for forewarning. I think my dilithium crystals would have exploded if I had arrived at Curriehill to catch the slow train to find it was a hookless hitachi.

    Never more than two bikes on that train But...

    No chance they could speed it up or put more trains on - one an hour is pants if you just miss it (4 between 7 and 8 ish am). Can you still go straight through to North Berwick on the 7.50a.m.?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  11. HankChief
    Member

    @gembo - Hooky was the next village over from my upbringing location.

    Many a happy & informative hour was spent in the Pear Tree :-)

    I can also recommend the Chequers in Chippy but I fear it is not what it was in the 90s

    Posted 5 years ago #

  12. gembo
    Member

    @hankchief, i have just been up the highest hill in Warwickshire on a Brompton. Only 259 metres or thereabouts but steep. Bowled down to Mickelton where very nice polish woman gave me a bottle of water for free as I had left wallet in cottage,

    Swung back round to Ilmington where we are staying I think the red lion is where i will get my Hooky Mild, the Howard Arms seems to be not tied to the brewery. Gastro pub very nice though.

    Lady farmer told me she had been worming her sheep in Gloucestershire (she farms top of the hill so is twixt Warwickshire and Gloucsetershire). She liked the lion rampant on the fietsclub Balerno jersey. She said she knew a Gembo family in Scotland but would not be same family (I have my name on sleeve of one of the iterations of the fietsclub) she made no comment upon the hammer and sickle I also have on sleeve. Though later she remarked on the beauty of the place and about why you could see why all the money would come here. No sign of David Cameron yet. All the people working in the pubs and shops are our friends from Europe (well Ilmington shop run by volunteers)

    Posted 5 years ago #

  13. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Nice to see legendary CCE thread drift is alive and well. :>

    Posted 5 years ago #

  14. sallyhinch
    Member

    I read somewhere that ScotRail technically won't carry e-bikes - is that true?

    I struggle to hang my steel tourer by the back wheel, and have occasionally had a conductor insist I turn it around if I hang it by the front wheel. Usually a gallant man springs to my assistance if I don't get it onto the hook first go, but this is not really a sustainable solution

    Posted 5 years ago #

  15. jonty
    Member

    does this mean gallant men are a non-renewable energy source?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  16. sallyhinch
    Member

    They've got a tendency to disappear just when they would be really handy!

    Posted 5 years ago #

  17. amir
    Member

    Cyclists traditionally are short on upper body strength (not uberuce).

    Posted 5 years ago #

  18. gembo
    Member

    @hankchief, looks like we are just up the A429 from you now? Any sign of David and Samantha or Charlie and Rebekah (oh no, she is with Keith now)

    Uberuce famous for upper body, but he dont post here no more

    Posted 5 years ago #

  19. LaidBack
    Member

    @Sallyhinch I read somewhere that ScotRail technically won't carry e-bikes - is that true?

    I took my Nihola step through e-bike to Pitlochry on a Sat night 10 days ago after shop hours from Haymarket.
    I had booked a seat and bike space online. No cycle ticket came out machine. (Highland line fully booked thread may have something on that). So removed battery and hid it in pannier. Got space ok. 3 coach crammed train.
    On way back I did the same. Partly to avoid disputes (although I heard somewhere that Scotrail were first TO to 'welcome' e-bike a few years ago). Removed battery in case it was an IC unit with hooks.
    Today I took my recliner on East Coast to Dundee with no bike ticket. Actually find it impossible to do upright at moment beyond quick journeys since my hard fall last week. Getting better slowly.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  20. HankChief
    Member

    "@hankchief, looks like we are just up the A429 from you now?"

    Not any more - now safely back in the 'Burgh. I was only briefly passing through the 'Shire' to give the next generation a sample of its delights.

    'Any sign of...'

    Pah. They are all considered 'outsiders'. 'Locals' need to be born in the local maternity hospital and have a proven lineage... (I know as I failed this test...)

    Sadly most locals being priced out due to gentrification...

    Posted 5 years ago #

  21. gembo
    Member

    Reading about that louche London lot makes me long for an o;ld train from the past, the sort you could hang your bike on from a hook

    Posted 5 years ago #

  22. wingpig
    Member

    Uberuce also reported back from sports-medical people that medical imaging can reveal that 'cyclists' can have poor mineralisation of the lumbar vertebrae, though hopefully this is just the pipe-cleaner-arm racing-costume people on the telly rather than utility cyclists.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  23. sallyhinch
    Member

    Perhaps ScotRail's 'hang em high' policy is a public health measure to improve our upper body strength?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  24. LaidBack
    Member

    @sallyhinchcliff - I wondered that! On paper the increased bike capacity on Highland Line and east coast seems good. But with awkward access then you can expect some people to conclude that bike carriage is too much stress. In my case I work from an expectation of hostility to anything I ride.
    On my last post I meant to say it was a Scotrail train to Dundee (Arbroath).
    LNER guards will not allow anything on without a ticket.
    Exception to bike carriage are the new electric units which have sensible 'on the level' usable spaces.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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