CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Banning cars

(26 posts)

  1. Rosie
    Member

    Should SUVs be banned from cities?

    "SUVs are a paradox: while many people buy them to feel safer, they are statistically less safe than regular cars, both for those inside and those outside the vehicle. A person is 11% more likely to die in a crash inside an SUV than a regular saloon. Studies show they lull drivers into a false sense of security, encouraging them to take greater risks. Their height makes them twice as likely to roll in crashes and twice as likely to kill pedestrians by inflicting greater upper body and head injuries, as opposed to lower limb injuries people have a greater chance of surviving. Originally modelled from trucks, they are often exempt from the kinds of safety standards applied to passenger vehicles, including bonnet height. In Europe legislation is being brought in to end such “outdated and unjustified” exemptions."

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-suvs-from-our-cities

    Posted 5 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    “ In Europe legislation is being brought in to end such “outdated and unjustified” exemptions." “

    Interfering with personal freedom then...

    Posted 5 years ago #

  3. gembo
    Member

    all single occupant vehicles that are too long or too wide or too tall need to be banned.

    If vehicle has more than one person in it the certain aspects of its volume can increase

    Posted 5 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Banned or chopped down to size with a massive bandsaw.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    Massive landrover parked on the corner of Holyrood Road and the turn up to Moray House this morning on a yellow line. Lethal. I am afraid I had to propel along the pavement to avoid being hit

    Posted 5 years ago #

  6. Rosie
    Member

    Install gun turrets and send them to a war zone.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  7. mcairney
    Member

    As a mostly-reformed petrolhead SUVs are cars designed for people who don't actually like cars. I'm assuming that the elevated vantage point messes with their distance perception and that's the reason why the feel compelled to drive about a foot off my bumper.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  8. ejstubbs
    Member

    "Originally modelled from trucks, they are often exempt from the kinds of safety standards applied to passenger vehicles, including bonnet height."

    Hmmm. AFAIK the "passenger vehicle that's classified as a truck" is a US thing. I'm not aware of any exemptions from passenger vehicle safety standards for car-based SUVs in the EU, though I'm more than willing to be enlightened by anyone with access to authoritative information.

    Come to think, I believe Ford did do an MPV/people carrier based on the Transit for a short while back in the 1990s. I think it was only ever offered to company car fleets, so that they could offer staff something roughly equivalent to (but actually nothing like) the Renault Espace. No idea whether it had any exemption from passenger vehicle regulations, but I don't believe that it ever evolved in to an SUV, having been a one-off product aimed at a very small niche in the market that didn't like it anyway.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  9. rbrtwtmn
    Member

    In younger days I hired a car for work, and as they'd run out of ordinary cars was given a Range Rover-y thing - goodness knows if it really was a Range Rover, but it was of that type. "Goody goody" I thought, this will be fun. The hype and marketing had done its job. The reality was a nightmare - trying to pilot this truck through narrow bendy Borders roads after a long day's work. I'd not say 'yes' next time - no way.

    The point of the story - if we build our city roads for big wide trucks then big wide trucks are going to be fun to drive - motorway inspired infrastructure. If we narrow them down - Dutch style - so that we're often faced with a narrow one-car wide lane, people sized, with minimal clearance from bollards, kerbs, parked vehicles, and the like - then these will be horrible to drive and people won't drive them.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  10. gembo
    Member

    @rbrtwtmn, well that would be good but at the moment we have narrow windy streets with big SUVs driving down them. Not just in the centre of edinburgh.

    Jumpier Green is often snarled as in bits of that suburb the road narrows and the cars are too wide

    Posted 5 years ago #

  11. Rosie
    Member

    Given all the problems with parking and narrow streets cited, don't 4x4 drivers find their vehicles exasperating and frustrating?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  12. Snowy
    Member

    @rbrtwtmn haha, agreed, years ago I got a shot of my boss's 4x4...and found that it's called a 'Discovery' after the sudden realisation that it has all the handling of a full supermarket trolley...

    Posted 5 years ago #

  13. Baldcyclist
    Member

    They have a weird kind of bad handling though. Our Volvo bounces all over the place with it's soft suspension, but the 4 wheel drive system keeps it planted to the road fairly well.

    It'll go round bends at 50mph comfortably where my rear wheel drive sports car would be in the ditch at 30, especially in the wet.

    I wouildn't bring either of them into the city if there's a choice.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  14. fimm
    Member

    I remember having to drive some horrible hire car 4x4 thing. I hated it and it took me about a million years to park it.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  15. steveo
    Member

    I've got a Qashqai +2 fauxX4 I don't think it's really much bigger than a Mondeo estate (looks it) but the massive boot is great for stuff I like to do, 29er no problem, 220w solar panel- tight but it fits, camping with the kids- just! Plus it'll take the 5 of us with 3 in car seats which a Mondeo won't.

    Again though I never bring it into town and I generally get fridges delivered...

    Posted 5 years ago #

  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    What do you do with 220W of solar power?

    Posted 5 years ago #

  17. steveo
    Member

    What do you do with 220W of solar power?

    Not entirely sure yet, wanted a 50w panel for the shed but there was a 220w on gum tree for less! Need but build a frame to mount it on.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  18. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "I've got a Qashqai +2 fauxX4 I don't think it's really much bigger than a Mondeo estate"

    It's actually smaller (in terms of road space):
    Mondeo estate: 4.87m x 2.12m*
    Cashcow +2: 4.54m x 1.78m

    The ford estate (and hatchback) is also bigger than my Volvo XC60.

    The mondeo has sucumbed to the SUV, Ford are stopping making them.

    *includes mirrors, the cashcow sizes might not.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  19. Baldcyclist
    Member

    The broader point is that SUV's are generally just taller than their saloon / estate counterparts, but generally share the same roadspace as 'normal' cars in similar brackets.

    eg a 3 series BMW shares the same platform as a X3 SUV and both are essentially the same size to within a few mm...

    Posted 5 years ago #

  20. steveo
    Member

    Didn't realise it was so small, I'll need to try harder next time.

    I guess the problem is the height for pedestrians, harder to see over and if there is a collision the impact is higher on the body.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  21. condor2378
    Member

    "Need but build a frame to mount it on"

    @Steveo, 4 solar panel mounts for sale on gumtree for £15 right now

    https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-miscellaneous-goods/solar-panel-mounts/1354636918

    Posted 5 years ago #

  22. steveo
    Member

    Cool, cheers condor2378.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  23. PS
    Member

    Given all the problems with parking and narrow streets cited, don't 4x4 drivers find their vehicles exasperating and frustrating?

    No. I've found our Discovery pretty easy to park. It doesn't seem to be that much, if any, bigger than a lot of the cars parked on our street, which points to the general issue of ever-growing car size.

    I've also not had much of an issue squeezing through narrow streets (except when faced by instances of inconsiderate/bad parking by fellow road users). I can't imagine it's bigger than a coach and horses.

    I doubt the legality of banning SUVs from cities and, TBH, I suspect any such campaign would divert and distract from the more important goal of reducing all motor vehicle use in towns. An effective LEZ would be an easier way to go after SUVs.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  24. jonty
    Member

    My very limited experience is that they all seem to have so many cameras and bleepers that it's more like landing a plane on instruments than parking a regular car.

    In fact I sort of formed the opinion that parking sensors/cameras are the only thing which allowed SUVs to take off.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  25. steveo
    Member

    In fact I sort of formed the opinion that parking sensors/cameras are the only thing which allowed SUVs to take off.

    Nah my old Sierra was much harder to park than my Qashqai and neither have sensors, well my sierra had bumpers and no crumple zones but I think French parking is now frowned upon.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  26. Rosie
    Member

    Growing demand for SUVs was the second-largest contributor to the increase in global CO2 emissions from 2010 to 2018, a new analysis has found.

    In that period, SUVs doubled their global market share from 17% to 39% and their annual emissions rose to more than 700 megatonnes of CO2, more than the yearly total emissions of the UK and the Netherlands combined.

    ...

    No energy sector except power drove a larger increase in carbon emissions, putting SUVs ahead of heavy industry (including iron, steel, cement and aluminium), aviation and shipping.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/oct/25/suvs-second-biggest-cause-of-emissions-rise-figures-reveal

    Posted 5 years ago #

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