The oldest I can think of is the fourteenth century Brig of Balgownie over the Don. Not many medieval bridges still going strong.
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Posted 3 years ago #
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The old bridge over the Tyne in East Linton is 16th century I believe. Not medieval, but respectably ancient.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Canmore lists Cramond Bridge as being built about 1500 but as it underwent several major repair projects I don't know how much is still original. The Grotto bridge is a youngster by comparison and appears to be harder to date. There is mention of a plaque dated 1757 on it though.
Of course Brig of Balgownie is at least 100 years older than either.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yeah, 1750-something on that plaque. All bridges are repaired all the time. I guess question is the keystone - is it the original? I think in Balgownie's case it is.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The Roman Bridge in Musselburgh isn't quite as old as it sounds although it is on the same site as the bridge the Romans built. The existing bridge is the third on that site and was built in the mid 16th Century using foundations of the second bridge which was built sometime before 1300. It's been extensively repaired a few times as the English liked knocking it down.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I'll confess to googling now but this site is facinating:
http://scotlandsoldestbridges.co.uk/Cramond Brig has 3 arches so no single keystone. However only one of the original 1488 ones remains. The other two only lasted 100 years before collapsing. The others date from 1617 which it appears was more of a rebuild than a repair.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Did not know about that one. Fascinating;
Posted 3 years ago # -
Wife is on call on Saturday night, actually half the hospital staff come in from Fife.
Won't be good if a patient gets called back for anything, and half the theatre team can't get there for 3 hours.
Posted 3 years ago # -
When I first read scotlandsoldestbridges.co.uk I wondered who they were sold to.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Any emergency diversion over the Forth Road Bridge will only be put in place overnight, bridge operators have confirmed.
Conservative Mid-Scotland and Fife MSP Murdo Fraser, said
“This revelation is utterly shocking and will infuriate all those who had understood that it would be available at fairly short notice."
Posted 3 years ago # -
Dartfordisation is coming. Accept this fact.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Mrs B read an article (didn't share the link) which suggested the ice risk was well understood even at planning, and the workaround was always to use the old bridge when that happened.
The work to replace the expansion joints and bits of the carraigeway on the old bridge and the neccecity for it to be on one side is all that has stopped it happening so far.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Seems odd that they didn't design in a quicker/easier diversion system in that case? Perhaps the surprise has been that it's happening so often - maybe only expected to be a once in 5-10 years thing and therefore could hopefully be left to after restoration works?
I am not particularly averse to having the FRB as a an occasional diversionary route with painted bus lanes to minimise public transport delays and encourage use of alternate transport/routes.
Posted 3 years ago # -
It's all one big slippery slope to having the FRB open all the time to all comers...
(Except bikes. They can divert to one side or the other, or to a lorry, at the whims of the powers that be.)
Posted 3 years ago # -
Slippery just now for sure. Is there not room to the west for another bridge? It is needed.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Tunnel?
Ferry?
Ferries??
(Or just stay at home.)
Posted 3 years ago # -
There are eight bridges over the Forth at Stirling.
I don't see why Edinburgh should settle for fewer.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Also two in kincardine and it is tiny
Grangemouth also has loads of bridges but not over the forth
Posted 3 years ago # -
BEAR Scotland has a fairly extensive FAQ about icing on the QC: https://www.bearscot.com/winter-portal/queensferry-crossing-ice-sensors/
18. Can you prevent ice accretion forming on the Queensferry Crossing?
Our long term goal is to develop a solution that will prevent ice from forming on the cables, and the better we understand the conditions that cause this issue, the greater our chances of success. Every bridge has different design details and operates in a different climate, so there is no off-the-shelf solution that is suitable for the Queensferry Crossing – any such solution will be bespoke.19. Can we learn from similar issues on other bridges around the world?
A review of measures to address ice accretion on other bridges has been undertaken. This indicates that, whilst many methods of prevention and removal have been studied, tested and deployed, no single method or technology has been found to be completely successful in mitigating the problem or removing ice build-up. Because of this, most operators simply close the bridge and wait for the ice to fall.26. Can the Forth Road Bridge be used as a diversion route if the QC needs to close?
The Forth Road Bridge is currently a dedicated public transport corridor and any other use would be to the detriment of public transport – but in emergency situations it is available to provide additional resilience as an emergency diversion route for motorway traffic. It should be noted that such a diversion would only be implemented overnight, outside peak periods. This is because it takes several hours to remove roadside barriers and lay large numbers of cones and signs, and this process would cause significant additional disruption to traffic during busy periods. Traffic will have to be initially diverted via the Kincardine Bridge, then switched to FRB overnight if the Queensferry Crossing is expected to remain closed for an extended period. Trials of the diversion implementation process are being undertaken to ensure it is as efficient and effective as possible.Quite an interesting article from 2016 here about solutions to icing which have been and are being trialled on a bridge in Ohio.
We’ve looked at putting chemicals on it, wiring it, heating it. We basically looked at every available technology, and none of them are really practical for the bridge.
...
Traditionally, manual mechanical removal of ice has been the only option, with the often dangerous work reserved for hoisted workers. Or infrastructure could be erected to ’catch’ the ice.
Another solution is to use electricity to stimulate movement of the ice. One such method is an Electromagnetic Impulsive De-Icing System, which uses high current DC pulses run through a coil, leading to debonding and expulsion of ice. It was found effective for light to moderate ice accretions, tested for three years on the Storebaelt East Bridge in Denmark. Despite early success in the trial, a heavy 50mm ice accretion rendered the system ineffective.
...
On Hakucho Bridge, Japan, a study of the effects between different heating methods was made, including use of metal foils, air and water, but large amounts of energy were required in each case.
...
In Sweden, a high pressure hot air system has been employed on the Udevalla Bridge. The air is pushed through small holes in high density pollyelthelyne tubing. Again, large quantities of energy are required.
It does seem to be the case that there is no easy, off-the-shelf solution, and the QC is by no means unique in experiencing the phenomenon.
Posted 3 years ago # -
> It's all one big slippery slope to having the FRB open all the time to all comers...
Yes this is certainly the risk. The current diversion requires them to stop traffic so presumably involves a full redirect of the road to the FRB, which prevents this from being an easy option. I can certainly see some sort of "local traffic" creep though which might make the bus route look like an acceptable route for some wafer thin traffic flow.
Posted 3 years ago # -
It's only very recently that people have developed an expectation that they can criss-cross the Firth of Forth willy-nilly in winter. It's a notion we should really abandon.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@neddie: It's all one big slippery slope to having the FRB open all the time to all comers...
I think that's unlikely, given the pretty much unresolvable issues with the suspension cables - which, after all, were why the QC was built in the first place. From a technical perspective it probably could be opened to a limited subset of general motor traffic, though.
Posted 3 years ago # -
There's not enough appetite for political division-mongering in the sustainable travel advocacy space.
"Well, we could open the bridge to a some road users - say Audi drivers - forever, but this would mean that the overall strain would be too much to open the bridge as a diversion ever again. So sort that one out amongst yourselves and get back to us with your answer when you've got one yeah?"
Posted 3 years ago # -
i use FRB twice daily and have done for 15 years
the trouble with keeping domestic motoring options available means that active travellers like myself are stuck with the current situation, with no hope of a dedicated lane ever being created
the FRB footway, since QC motorway bridge opened, is now an extremely popular family leisure destination - quiet and picturesque - and car parks at both ends
yesterday was heavy mist and rain and yet it was still hoaching with leisure users
sounds good - whats the problem ?
well, A to B cycle commuters lived for years using FRB with substandard conditions shared with contractors and portacabins that culminated with the extensive roadworks on the north side for years, all with the promise of a better future soon at hand
the reality is that only one of the two footways is ever open, its packed at all times with leisure destination users, and the more of those there are, the less tolerant they are of cyclists
its easy seen that Transport Scotland and MSPs must think its job done and active travel is totally sorted on FRB
but it is now a full time play park, with many kids on nimble wee scooters dotting about unpredictably, dogs running about without leash - or even worse - a fully extended leash right across the width of the footway, etc
its a hazardous dangerous shambles, and all because the Transport Scotland loves SHARED USE
Posted 3 years ago # -
PS my issues above are all about weekday daytime conditions - i would not even dream of attempting to cycle over FRB on the weekends any more
it might as well be charles bridge in prague
Posted 3 years ago # -
That's a really good point bax - time to open some or all of the main carriageway to bikes.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I used the FRB on NYD, on my big commute, and it was heaving. Bit of a risk of getting tipped over the rail by accident. I was very irked that they had 50% of the walkway capacity shut, mid-pandemic.
I did see a couple on the far side. They'd gone to the wrong walkway, seemed to have just walked through. Got me thinking, tbh.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I was very irked that they had 50% of the walkway capacity shut, mid-pandemic
that has been a constant, since QC motorway opened
only one FRB footway open, with one reserved for the staff
but the staff trucks still get to use the public footway also !
they really do like it that way, that's the drill
Posted 3 years ago # -
Bax, all good points. There is no active travel corridor across the Forth.
Were both sides ever open before? I've only ever seen one in 7 years of use.
Prior to the QC opening it wasn't unusual to find both lanes shut. One blocked by a barrier and the other by contractor vehicles.
Posted 3 years ago #
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