Also, this is an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order with a lifespan of 18 months. You don't use expensive materials that are difficult to tweak. You only do that once (if?) the final designs and premenant TRO are approved.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route
(467 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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Cllr Munro at today's TEC now implying that the consultation on the Braid estate / Whitehouse Loan options is actually a referendum
Keeps talking about the majority of residents...
Posted 1 year ago # -
SNP supporting the Green group motion
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cllr Bandel (Green) now expressing her concerns about what the "aims" of the scheme are, and subsequently what "diluting the aims" means
Also saying that only very polarised people respond to council consultations - there is a huge group of "normal" people out there, of whom the majority would likely support improvements
Posted 1 year ago # -
The amendment to Cllr Bandel's motion was carried, so only points 1, 6 and 7 from the word "encouraged"
Unfortunately, this is a pretty weak amendment
1. Notes the contested decision of the Transport &
Environment committee in June 2023 to separately readvertise the ETRO for the Greenbank-Meadows Quiet Route scheme whilst agreeing that the aims of the scheme should not be “diluted.6. Therefore, reaffirms that Transport & Environment committee is the decision-making body for this matter and that the final option for the Quiet Route will be agreed at committee, following consideration of comments put forward by residents through the consultation process.
7. [...] encourages residents to participate in the consultation so that their views are heard.”
Posted 1 year ago # -
The most important points of the original motion were:
2. Considers that the aim of the Quiet Route is about more than just facilitating safe cycling routes for residents and instead is about reducing traffic levels and making residential areas safer and quieter, in line with the Council
target of reducing car km usage by 30% by 2030.3. Therefore, notes with concern that multiple options put forward for consideration as part of the readvertised ETRO include the removal of modal filters which will reintroduce motor traffic into residential areas, including an option to wholly remove all filters in the southern section of the Transport and Environment Committee - 14 September 2023 Page 4 of 6 route, and considers that these proposals do “dilute” the scheme
Sadly, those bits didn't pass
Posted 1 year ago # -
“
#EdinWebCast
Greenbank-Meadows Quiet Route Consultn
Cllr @julebandel -
concern that consultn proposals do not fully preserve aims of the scheme, assuming it is to preserve "quiet route" aspirationVote: approve only paras 1 & end of para 7
Decisions will be post-consultn
“
https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/1702327213566374338
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cllr Munro at today's TEC now implying that the consultation on the Braid estate / Whitehouse Loan options is actually a referendum
I did say to officers that they may find it hard it find to make a recommendation that counters the majority opinion without angering whomever that is, as many people do see it as a referendum and would consider themselves ignored again. They said that's why they're asking people to rank the options, which I interpreted as "we'll probably go with Option 2 as it's seen as the compromise".
Posted 1 year ago # -
Maybe I misheard, but if point 6 didn't pass, then that's even worse!
Posted 1 year ago # -
@pringlis: I put it to the officers that this defacto referendum would only end badly for the council, it'll end with a 3-way split - and that whatever decision they take it's likely that a significant group of people will be angry and claim to be ignored (again)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Re: Option 2 as the compromise
Is spending £250,000+ instead of £10,000 on one of the most affluent areas in the city really a "compromise"? Potentially depriving more deprived areas of 24 modal filters?
Except that ordinary residents think they are just choosing between A, B and C, they don't know that 2 of the options cost 25 times as much as the first - BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PROPERLY INFORMED
Posted 1 year ago # -
No argument there - we made a similar point. They didn't seem worried about funding, just said it'd come partially from Active Travel budget and partially from Sustrans. Surely has to be a factor in the decision at least when it comes to committee.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Is the active travel planning process in Edinburgh fundamentally broken?
Posted 1 year ago # -
There was a S1/S2 pupil cycling home alone around 5pm at the bottom of Comiston Road. He took to the pavement to escape the oblivious stationary cars (good choice, I thought). At least it was until he came to 2 <rule 2>s in DAF truck FP18WRN which had completely blocked the pavement outside the New Xian takeaway for essential MSG deliveries. He had to dismount and wheel his bike into the road with now moving traffic to get round their roadblock. Absolutely ridiculous. No enforcement, no effs given.
The ‘Quiet Route’ is a farce at this point. There’s not a single routing that I could contentedly parcel an 11-13 child off on, accompanied or otherwise.
Posted 1 year ago # -
https://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/blog/greenbank-meadows-quiet-route-consultation-update/
The short of it
The brief or TLDR (“too long, didn’t read”) version:
I support Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route and will continue to advocate for its strengthening and expansion in our area through low-cost measures and interventions which will make our residential streets safer, quieter and more pleasant to be around. I believe this is reflective of the views of residents in the area.
I believe it was a mistake of Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat Councillors to introduce additional layers of consultation about the Quiet Route. Additional consultation puts unreasonable expectations on residents to spend more of their time responding to further Council surveys on the same subject and will delay permanent implementation of a scheme which is popular and important.
I believe that parties who campaigned on manifestos to take action on the climate emergency are reneging on their promises by not supporting decisive action to make the scheme permanent, and by watering down aspects of it. I believe there has been ample discussion and feedback received about the Quiet Route for the Council to address concerns raised, tweak the existing scheme in response to this feedback and strengthen it. I think that there is a real danger of the Council “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” with the new options being considered.
I encourage all residents to submit feedback about the route as part of the Council’s latest consultation. You can do this on the consultation website here by 22nd October.Posted 1 year ago # -
Last day to get your Greenbank-Meadows consultation responses in:
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/greenbank-to-meadows/
No need to add comments, it's the headline figures that really count.
Posted 1 year ago # -
A useful summary from Blackford Safe Routes:
https://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/braid-estate-and-whitehouse-loan/
Posted 1 year ago # -
Aaaaannnd... we can relax again for a few weeks before we go back to having to defend again for the 20th time what is a simple, obvious, effective scheme, that is both doing-the-right-thing and council policy.
Honestly, sick of this continuous battle.
Thanks for nothing, Scott Arthur
Posted 1 year ago # -
@neddie - so true. This has been one of the most depressing active travel episodes I can remember in the city.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The results are in... https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s67770/Item%207.3%20-%20Travelling%20Safely%20Greenbank%20to%20Meadows%20QC.pdf
Looks positive for Whitehouse Loan with the Blackford Safer Routes option being recommended. Not so good for Braid Estate though, looks like they may go for Option 3 which is removal of all filters and adding segregated lanes at a cost of £200-400k and meaning other projects would be delayed to fund it.
Posted 8 months ago # -
@pringlis - thanks for the link. I think this is the most significant section of the report:
4.37 As traffic on each of the streets in the Braid Estate feeds to or from this junction, this represents a considerable decrease in the overall level of traffic through the Braid Estate.
The Council have actual proof that the quiet route has resulted in traffic evaporation - pretty much the holy grail of transport policy. So what are they planning to do? Rip it all out.4.38 This traffic does not appear to have simply re-routed onto Morningside Road. Traffic counts done at the same time show that the average number of vehicles travelling through the Morningside Clock junction between 7am and 7pm in 2018 was 17,065, while in 2023 this had only increased to 17,363.
4.39 This suggests that the modal filters introduced in the Braid Estate may have successfully reduced the level of traffic travelling through the area. As such, it is possible that their removal may jeopardize this, resulting in an increase in overall traffic.
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
Councillors to choose new layout for Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Connection
Transport Convener Cllr Scott Arthur said he feels it is now time to move on from the Spaces for People discussion relating to the Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Connection by adopting a permanent solution.
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
Cllrs voting will these scenes be possible if levels of invasive through traffic is increased? Over the last few years this quiet route (LTN) has enabled safe trips to school, work and leisure for young and old. Please do not remove but improve the filters & make it permanent.
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
Cllr Arthur lying through his teeth, trying to tell us that installing a segregated cycle lane and removing filters in the Braid estate will "reduce traffic and make the area safe for kids getting to school"
It won't: The currently installed filters have reduced traffic by 40% - taking them out will increase traffic by a similar amount
<content warning: death of a child mentioned near the end>
Posted 8 months ago # -
The existing filters have reduced traffic in the Braid Estate by 40%... and NO traffic displacement to Morningside Road
Posted 8 months ago # -
Yet councillors want to spend £400,000 to re-enable rat-running and rip out the filters. And treating a consultation as a referendum.
They literally have a WORKING LTN and they want to rip it out. Absolute madness!
Posted 8 months ago # -
@neddie - I simply cannot get my head around this issue.
The current Greenbank-Meadows route cost the Council £0, as it was funded by Transport Scotland. The proven reduction in traffic means it it helps meet traffic reduction targets, emissions reduction goals, road safety targets, physical activity delivery plan aims, air pollution reduction targets and simply makes the area a nicer place to be.
Yet despite all this, Councillors plan to have it ripped up and spend £0.4m on something their own officers advise will make things worse.
Why? To provide a moment of gratification to a small number of people people living in one of the most affluent areas in Scotland. That's all it will be. The moaners won't really notice the difference. They won't change how they vote. They won't think any better of the Council.
It seems we are cursed to live in an age of idiocy.
Posted 8 months ago # -
And then there's the equality and poverty impact:
Those options which would re-open roads to vehicular traffic which are currently closed are considered to have the greatest negative impact in terms of equality and poverty. The benefits of these options are primarily felt by motorists. Car access and use is higher among higher income households and lower among lower income households. While benefits to motorists may also benefit people with mobility and visual impairments, the benefits of re-opening through roads in this regard are considered to be small as all premises on affected streets are still able to be accessed by private vehicles with fairly minor diversions required
...negative impacts affect everyone who uses affected streets, but disproportionately affect those who do not have access to private vehicles – such as young people and lower income households
Posted 8 months ago # -
We have a SMPS Parent Council meeting tonight where this will no doubt come up. I can't make it due to work commitments but was discussing with my colleagues on Transport Committee as to what to say about it and really we're stumped. The segregated lanes won't be of use to most of our kids who travel on bike as they currently cycle side by side with their parents/siblings chatting and there won't be room for that there. We're losing all east to west/west to east protection as there won't be a single modal filter left - those were really important for making it easier for kids to cross the road walking to school, as well as the benefit for those cycling and not having to cross intersections. At least Option 2 left some filters and had a new one at Comiston Place. I'll write to my councillors but sadly it seems it's a foregone conclusion.
As neddie says the moaners will still moan. You see it on Cllr Arthur's social media with people moving about Option 3 being selected, despite it being the most motor friendly of them all. I saw someone calling it "Spokes preferred option" which is a laugh!
Posted 8 months ago #
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