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Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route

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  1. bakky
    Member

    Been filming the above Greenbank to Meadows quiet route videos over the last few days, big shout out to the drastic change in weather!

    Today will be filming from this previously scouted location on Braid Ave for another 1hr 4x speed video of school run time before filters are taken out.

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    .

    The Braid Rd / Hermitage Dr / Braidburn Ter junction video at peak time had approx ~60 cycle users in an hour on Monday, which is a nice figure. Need to re-count, not that I don't trust our 6yo who was rapt when reviewing the footage and keeping score!

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    .

    I will probably also publish the full realtime 1hr of that junction (possibly others) as I think it's informative to see how folks actually use them in practice. In my opinion the Braid Rd video above shows the junction working really well, in spite of local commentary suggesting it's confusing / complex (it's just new, folks - come on!)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  2. neddie
    Member

    Nice.

    Interesting that one person took to the pavement (at 2:05) to make the right turn from Braid Rd southbound into Braidburn Tce.

    Which suggests the design is not good / intuitive for bikes in that direction at least.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  3. neddie
    Member

    White Audi comes absolutely charging across the continuous footway at 5:04, not slowing for anyone. If anyone was about to walk across there, they wouldn't stand a chance

    Posted 1 year ago #

  4. bakky
    Member

    Yes - there was some really interesting movements particularly southbound. I've tried a few myself - emerging from either side of the filter, taking the tiger crossing on Hermitage Dr then the tiger to Braidburn Ter, or using the carriageway. It's not particularly obvious what is best (taking every side of the junction to cross the tigers does feel clunky). Traffic from Hermitage Dr in for a shock when Braid Rd reopens and they need to actually give way coming round that corner, currently only focused on crossings.

    A white Audi you say... surely not :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  5. Dave
    Member

    This is great work! I've got one or two static videos from the estate at various times, I must remember to look them out and share (maybe contribute them to that one youtube channel?)

    Plus a few actually riding too.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  6. bakky
    Member

    Great stuff! Yeah that’s a good shout, you can always get me a flash drive to Not PY one month or sort out some kind of cloud transfer etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    My experience of the junction, as it has been for 20 years, is mainly in turning right from Braid Road into Braidburn Terrace. The mini roundabout was a menace; the new setup is much better, although it's not perfect.

    My main difficulty is that drivers going northbound from Braid Road (i.e., having come down the big hill) are mainly looking for drivers approaching them from Braidburn Terrace and maybe Hermitage Drive, and are apt to miss pedestrians and cyclists trying to cross the zebras.

    So for my manoeuvre, I feel slightly more safe crossing Hermitage Drive than I do crossing Braid Road; the latter especially means looking both forward to my left and behind to my right, at the same time. It's harder work than would be a conventional zebra on a straight road because I have to turn my head constantly somewhere between 180 and 270 degrees.

    In addition, having crossed the Hermitage Drive zebra, I have to watch extra carefully to make sure a driver who stopped to let me cross is then aware enough to stop again to let me cross the second zebra.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  8. bakky
    Member

    @Arellcat agreed - coming across the tiger crossing from Hermitage Dr to Braidburn Ter is an awkward exercise - hard to know whether drivers from Hermitage Dr are going to realise you're about to use the crossing while they're turning left. That particular aspect might actually be helped when planters are gone from Braid Rd as they will be much more likely to need to stop to give way to southbound Braid Rd traffic.

    I also think the issue with planters as even a medium-term solution is how much they obscure sightlines (in this case, whether southbound cycles from Braid Rd are about to pass through the junction) as compared with bollards.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  9. bakky
    Member

    Concluded filming now. Here's the full set.

    Statics:

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    These each have a link to their respective 1hr 'realtime' version in the description, if you're wanting to see any of the interactions as they happened.

    Ride-throughs

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    All of these are also on a Youtube Playlist.

    Now of course, the wait is on for a) the filter removal and lane introduction throughout the estate, and b) the rediscovery of it as a through-route, before filming the 'after' videos.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Now would be the time to do some baseline traffic counts, such as a matrix or heat map/bubble chart of how many drivers are making which particular manoeuvre. There are 4 arms to the junction, and because of the filter and one-way, there are currently 4 possible legal manoeuvres (and 2 illegal, into Bbn Terr).

    If and when the planters go, drivers will have 3 more possible manoeuvres (5 if turning right from Hermitage Drive into Braid Road northbound, and vice versa, is also allowed.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  11. neddie
    Member

    In the first video, at 5:25, there's a couple crossing Hermitage Drive, not even using the zebra, but simply crossing at the desire-line, i.e. at the apex of the corner

    Posted 1 year ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Addendum by the Green Group
    Transport and Environment Committee
    15th August 2024
    Item 6.1 - Business Bulletin
    Canaan Lane
    1. Welcomes updates on work around Canaan Lane to improve safety.
    2. Notes the Committee's previous decision about the Greenbank-Meadows Quiet Route on 7th March 2024 which included a commitment to "any necessary updates [being made] to School Travel Plans* which should include Canaan Lane Primary and South Morningside
    Primary, given their proximity to the route. 3. Notes that, to date, no specific engagement has taken place with the school community around what changes will need to be made to the Canaan Lane / South Morningside Primary School travel plans following the committee decision to remove modal filters along the "quiet" route, despite these concerns being raised by the Parent Council
    advance of and following that meeting. 4. Regrets that the school community has expressed concern over the latest iterat
    school travel plan which includes errors and has not had appropriate sign off fro
    Parent Council.

    5. Agrees that officers meet with ward Councillors and the school community to determine: a. The current status of the school travel plan, including amending errors contained
    within it b. The scope of possible revisions to the school travel plan in the face of the Committee's decision to remove modal filters from the "quiet" route, as w
    timescale for those revisions to be implemented 6. Agrees that updates from this meeting will be included in the next report on scho
    plans due at Transport and Environment committee in November 2024.

    “

    https://x.com/CllrBenParker/status/1824019325629419737/photo/1

    Posted 10 months ago #

  13. neddie
    Member

    An update on the Greenbank to Meadows traffic regulation order process from Blackford Safe Routes:

    https://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/braid-estate-and-whitehouse-loan/

    Temporary (?!) 'holding' ETROs are to be put in place in ~2 weeks time. Then the 'actual' ETROs to be written in January 2025, ready for the 4th consultation on safety measures for children.

    Talk about a drawn-out process. Jeez

    Posted 7 months ago #

  14. pringlis
    Member

    Have you seen the safety audit? Depressing reading. Quite a few new hazards introduced including head on collision, for cars and bikes. I've uploaded a copy to https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tsipgmugnss9hwzc3h9g0/2425_044-Greenbank-to-Meadows-Cycle-Scheme-Stage-1-RSA-For-Issue-Version-1.pdf?rlkey=0d9jpnckqf5hwi5m4uyf6qx2w&e=1&st=kpofsgyo&dl=0

    Notable that prominent members of the Keep Morningside Moving Facebook group (Mr Bailey) are now saying that maybe it'd be better to leave it as is.

    SMPS had a meeting last week about that and general road safety around our school (a child was recently hit by a van on Morningside Drive/Comiston Road). Council officials said their hands were tied by the instructions from councillors but they're open to minor changes that don't involve civil engineering. Saga definitely isn't over.

    Posted 7 months ago #

  15. neddie
    Member

    @pringlis, you have a PM

    Posted 7 months ago #

  16. Dave
    Member

    Midmar drive looks fantastic with the hatching still set aside for drivers, no road diet except for some "meat grinder" islands. You can see how the aims of a quiet neighbourhood are totally being preserved

    Posted 7 months ago #

  17. Morningsider
    Member

    @pringlis - that for sharing this. A quite astonishing effort being put into removing a cheap, effective, popular, low-impact scheme with something costly and less safe that appears to have little support. All because Scott Arthur couldn't hold his nerve with a few online roasters.

    Posted 7 months ago #

  18. Stickman
    Member

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-resident-claims-council-report-on-controversial-traffic-plans-was-misleading-and-biased-5136448

    Posted 1 month ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    Mmm

    “

    “Meanwhile, the report spent six paragraphs telling the committee why they should reject option three. But to his credit, the then committee convener Scott Arthur said ‘Well, the majority want option three - we should go for it’.”

    Mr Bailey has previously highlighted the fact that the safety audit on the proposed changes was not finished before the committee made its decision. And the audit later identified 13 potential accident situations created by the changes, including two where it says there could be a head-on collision.

    “

    Posted 1 month ago #

  20. bakky
    Member

    Personally I’ve found it a breath of fresh air having the opposition doing the campaigning work on our behalf; shoot down option 3 hard enough, coupled with local lobbying to return to filters, and we’ve got two groups that end up supporting a reversion.

    It’s clear the antis think they can get back their 2019 layout, and it’s abundantly clear they won’t.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  21. neddie
    Member

    What is so frustrating, and highlights the injustice of it all, is that this person has the time to spend reading 1000s of consultation submissions, then has the ear of the press for his own prejudices and misinformation. Hard working people and busy parents/carers don’t have time to spend doing this. Where are their voices? Where are the voices of the children?

    This is why we need leaders in councils & government to ignore all this noise and follow policy and what’s best for the community

    Posted 1 month ago #

  22. neddie
    Member

    And we don’t ask the general public to design aircraft and expect them to be able to fly safely

    Why would we expect the general public to have any say in the detailed design of systemic safety on our streets?

    Leave it to the experts and follow an evidence-led approach

    Posted 1 month ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    “

    How to make cars disappear without banning them

    "Low traffic, high impact" is the UK’s blueprint for better neighborhoods

    ANDY BOENAU

    “

    https://www.urbanismspeakeasy.com/p/how-to-make-cars-disappear-without

    But of course Edinburgh is special…

    Posted 1 month ago #

  24. Morningsider
    Member

    What I really don't understand is - what do the anti's hope to achieve? @bakky is right that they want the old road layout back, but why? It would simply make the Braid/Grange area worse to live in and walk/cycle through, for no appreciable difference on the main drag through Morningside/Bruntsfield.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  25. pringlis
    Member

    They want it to take 3 minutes to drive to the shops instead of 5 minutes.

    Mr Bailey is playing an odd game. He says he'd prefer to keep the current scheme than introduce the segregated lanes. Reading between the lines I think that's because he thinks it'd be easier to go from the existing scheme to full removal, than segregated lanes -> full removal. So ultimately he wants full removal, but for now he's actually making the case for keeping the existing filters.

    I'm not sure how we get to point where we introduce new filters to eliminate the still unacceptable level of through traffic, but that's where I'd like to see it. I'm not a fan of the segregated lanes, nor of butchering the trees on Braid Avenue to give them sufficient head height. Just introduce 2 or 3 more filters and we're good.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  26. Morningsider
    Member

    @pringlis - I suppose you are right. A lack of imagination on my part, as I just can't understand that mindset.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  27. pringlis
    Member

    Saw this image on the Keep Morningside Moving group. Looks good to me - they're going to move the island at the infamous Comiston Road/Braid Hills Drive intersection "meat grinder" so that the protected lane can continue past it.

    Seems sensible to me, but complaints coming in about it being a waste of money.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

  28. bakky
    Member

    The grinder is an abomination and the number of close shaves I've had through it, particularly with kids on board, is beyond galling.

    The thing I haven't worked out yet is what programme or project this falls under - but did find reference to it back in November 2023 in a report to TEC.

    The other grinders - Northbound at Buckstone shops and one or possibly two on Braid Rd - need elimination works too. Buckstone shops quite a thing to try and design around though - busy parallel parking bays, double parking frequently into the door-zone unprotected cycle lane, then the grinder's classic design of 'the paint denotes cycle priority but there's no accompanying signage or advanced warning to the folks still driving their hurtleboxes like it's a 40mph zone, good luck throwing yourself into their path'.

    I have half a thought in my head about some kind of floating parking solution there but it's got shades of Leith walk zigzag if that were done, as well as a pedestrian refuge buildout to contend with. I saved a photo from somewhere in Duddingston in preparation for speaking to these grinder designs, as there's a sort of build-out-bypass pattern employed that could work elsewhere:

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

  29. urchaidh
    Member

    There have been some doubts raised about this crossing in Duddingston, it's just round the corner from me. It has a school crossing patrol and they (the crossing person) have suggested the kids can sometimes be a bit confused about where to wait.

    I suspect it's simply the floating bit isn't really big enough for a school crossing and that could be sorted given the amount of space available, though it's been there since 2008 and never been seen as an before. There'a another 150m west, outside the school.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

  30. bakky
    Member

    Yes the island in the road does look a bit compromised for space - so this isn't 'travelling safely' / 'spaces for people' era but earlier?

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

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