@jonty - I think something like that might be done in the meantime. One of the reasons I am keen to get planters (or something more "Attractive") in, is that anecdotally other schemes have been badly received when they look temporary or look unattractive or like roadworks. With planters we have various members of the community invested in this who would look after them and tend to plants etc... the likely reception would much more likely be positive then I think.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Greenbank to Meadows Quiet Route
(467 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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Ah right that's good news, I thought it was going to be left up to "the community" to actually enforce the closure. I think planters that aren't being used as anti vehicle defences will probably be much easier on the patience of maintainers and the tickboxes of public liability underwriters.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@algo, I like that, planters soften the look of closures in the environment and soften the resistance from the community.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“the likely reception would much more likely be positive then I think”
Agreed.
This time of year will need a whole lot of snowdrops, crocuses and daffs!
I’m sure there will be people who didn’t quite get round to separating their bulbs in past years...
Posted 3 years ago # -
“I think planters that aren't being used as anti vehicle defences will probably be much easier on the patience of maintainers and the tickboxes of public liability underwriters.“
Yes.
Concrete blocks then planters.
Should be possible to remove ‘unsightly’ concrete when planters are flourishing.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Potential for school(s) project too.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Czech Hedgehogs and Dragon’s Teeth. It’s the only way to ensure compliance.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Posted 3 years ago #
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I've started to make a page here with some voices of support:
http://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/voices-of-support-for-the-greenbank-to-meadows-quite-route/
I'll try and populate this more as I can. If anybody has any letters they've already written and wouldn't mind them being posted there, that would be really helpful - feel free to email them to the email on the site or PM here... much appreciated.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@algo as Neil Young sang
Don’t let it bring you down
It’s only castles burning
Find someone whose turning
And you will come aroundPosted 3 years ago # -
Of course the objector to a scheme that reduces local air and noise pollution and provides a safe, healthy alternative to driving has the NHS (England) logo as their Twitter avatar.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Happy to write in support.
Although not directly on the route many of our customers are."Families wanting to break out of dependence on car based commuting look for advice on what route to take, should they choose a cargo bike/trike or tandem. A major initiative like this will help to re-balance our community road space for those seeking healthier ways of getting around. Those requiring deliveries from couriers have nothing to fear as access is being maintained. All in all it's what the city needs and the first of many more we hope."
Laid Back Bikes, Edinburgh
@algo (and team) can lift that or paraphrase it. Really appreciate your efforts on this.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Brilliant thanks a lot @laidback
Posted 3 years ago # -
@algo that person appears to be basing their argument on it not being busy outside certain times. If it isn't busy, surely it won't hurt to leave it shut? If even a few people benefit then it'll be a net positive.
Also, temporary timed closures are surely going to lead to far more u-turns when people forget or don't realise what time it is. Do satnavs even cope with timed closures?
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have been - potentially in an error of judgement - responding to comments on the forum called "Nextdoor" in the Marchmont section. I wanted to at least put a few paragraphs of something reasoned about the benefits of the Quiet Route.
As was pointed out recently a lot of us who support active travel initiatives avoid the really toxic facebook platforms and opt for elsewhere, but perhaps it is time to be brave and engage a bit more here.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@algo, the banjo player in the band I am in engages incredibly rationally with the EEN posters and Trump supporters. He appears to be infinitely patient and infinitely rational. The banjo is about the fourth instrument he has mastered. Sax, piano, are his forte. Good on the moothie too.
Good luck
Posted 3 years ago # -
thanks @gembo - he sounds cool. We need more of him. Not enough rational banjo players around.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“perhaps it is time to be brave and engage a bit more here“
Definitely various views on that on CCE.
Strong backing for ‘don’t bother, some people’s minds won’t change’.
(Bit like the Trump ‘base’)
But clearly ‘in the real world’ other people do change their minds.
Big problem is whether FB, T etc act like ‘the real world’.
Being optimistic it’s worth considering that ‘the conversation’ isn’t just between two people, others are watching and may be open to influence.
Always worth challenging outright lies, but some people just use slippery assertions and move onto other ones when challenged, leaving a trail of uncertainties and encouraging doubt.
You/‘we’ want different things from the resisters.
Some don’t like any change, others just don’t want disruption to their convenient car dominated lives.
But, clearly there are people who are willing to think about different. Maybe give up a car or would like children to cycle to school (but don’t think it could ever be safe).
You obviously intend to give it a go, so good luck.
Unfortunately it’s not straightforward like ‘it’s a choice - back to before or the shiny new perfect CEC SfP plans’...
Posted 3 years ago # -
@chdot - thanks - yep definitely some of the responses are from people whose minds won't be changed, but I am hoping some neutrals see my response and consider the issues a bit more deeply. My main post is below, which was in response to many claiming the closures should be timed and localised.
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Making a quiet route work on timed operation is logistically difficult and expensive. The head of Gillespie's Primary has stated that a temporary closure outside the school is unworkable, but in any case that doesn't provide the safe route which is needed. The idea of the route is provide an alternative to the car where people feel safe enough to walk or cycle.Currently in Edinburgh 48% of journeys are under 2 miles, air pollution is a problem and the NHS spends billions each year on diseases related to inactivity. Routes such as this give a real opportunity for "Modal Shift" - encouraging people to become more active, produce less pollution and make more liveable and pleasant neighbourhoods and communities.
It is well documented that the sheer volume of traffic on our streets cannot be solved by opening up routes - this is a phenomenon known as induced demand. It is imperative for the future and well being of our kids that we adopt a more sustainable approach to travelling through the city where possible, and for those that must drive, lower traffic volume will also benefit their journeys. Recent studies show that emergency services experience no increase in average response time, and they have been consulted as stakeholders on this route.
The idea of the modal filters (preferably planters) is that they are easily adaptable and relatively cheap. Dutch designers use this technique on residential streets rather than more complicated and expensive segregated cycle lanes and pavements which they mainly design on main routes.
In existing Low Traffic Neighbourhoods where filters have been introduced, approval ratings are very high. There is some good info and an FAQ on this site along with the original designs around the area. Taking this approach is very much in line with the government recent policy (and indeed global policy) on modal shift and sustainable transport.
http://blackfordsaferoutes.co.uk/jgps-travel-committee/liveable-neighbourhoods/Posted 3 years ago # -
Who could disagree with all that?
Posted 3 years ago # -
@algo
They simply do not deserve your thoughtfulness.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yeah very familiar ‘arguments’.
Largely untrue and/or imagining nothing could be better than the status quo - for anyone.
Obviously no one is suggesting that no one will be worse off EVER.
But that’s the thing about maintaining privilege (of whatever sort) more people, already worse off will stay worse off - for longer.
It used to be (maybe) that (for instance) non-car owners expected to be owners ‘sometime’ so weren’t keen on being disadvantaged ’in the future’.
I think that idea/aspiration/faith is fading.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Now it's different I think as car ownership isn't out of reach for most, through HPI or credit for example, and so I'd guess a good proportion of families without cars do so by and large by choice. That may well be misguided.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Justification for reopening Braid Road southbound was delays to buses. Latest data shows no delays...
Continue dialogue with Lothian Buses regarding journey times on Comiston Road (last report 18/2/21 noting no current delays).
... but they are still going to reopen.
In terms of a timeline we are reviewing our design options next week and expect to arrange the stakeholder workshop in the next couple of weeks. We should be able, resource permitting, to reopen Braid Road (in a southbound direction) before the end of March 2021.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“resource permitting”
2 persons and a lorry for a couple of hours?
Posted 3 years ago # -
This isn't by all means all the kids who cycled - also these are P1-P3 kids going to school, and the uptake is greater a bit older so this is good to see:
https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/02/primary-pupils-use-new-quiet-route-to-go-to-school/
Posted 3 years ago # -
@algo that is great
Posted 3 years ago # -
Was up that way earlier. The new barriers make it feel much safer. An excellent pootle, taking in the sunshine, birdsong and crocuses. There was even a gentle tailwind. I could actually feel sorry for the people who are opposed to this. How could you experience such a change and prefer what was there before? (Well, depending how far back you go - Whitehouse Loan and Canaan Lane pre-date the invention of the motor car by several decades)
Posted 3 years ago # -
@morningsider, so do many of the objectors
Posted 3 years ago #
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