CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
To paraphrase Hume:
It is not possible to logically derive moral statements about how the world ought to be, from factual statements about how the world is.
Human morality is not grounded in self-interest, nor in divine prescription, but rather in our natural propensity to care about the judgements of others, or our peers, and to seek their approval and avoid their disapproval.
Also, an interesting take on related issues from Zizek:
Slovenians everywhere these days
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People’s beliefs and attitudes change over time. What is acceptable at one time may not be acceptable at another. This is all part of how our society and culture develops and grows through time, and we need to recognise these views – whilst acknowledging they are unacceptable today – as a part of our history. Not all history is good, and understanding this is important and helps us to see how we got to where we are today.
The school has decided that we need to recognise these changes in beliefs and that the golliwog should stay – as a reminder that people once thought differently from the way we do today.
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Though the novel (Alice in a Wonderland) made no reference to golliwogs the artist decided To include one. (In the mural he painted for the school).
No one knows why.
Also of note, the pupils used to catch the tram to Trinity or Bonnington to get to school in the .1920s Before Wardie was built.
The Cockburn Association is having various talks on related topics instead of their usual Open Doors.
Prof Geoff Palmer is kicking off "Don't Take Statues, take down racism."
David Hume's 'unenlightened' view of other races was as noted pretty standard for the time.
My memory of Hume background was that he couldn't teach at Edinburgh University due to his views on religion and spent a great deal of time on the express barge commuting to teach in Glasgow.
Ordinary people of that time would probably view failure to attend kirk as a much greater 'sin' than his views on other races.
Dutch newspaper claimed George Square had been named by Uni after George Floyd (!)
Signed and commented in support of plaque.
Hume’s father died when he was two. The family had very slender means so he had to work. He was librarian to the Faculty of Advocates at University of Edinburgh. Adam Ferguson took over that position from him. It did not pay much but allowed access to their library which is a good one.
Correct though that his atheism denied him access to University work, either in Edinburgh or Glasgow.
Comments Received: 2297
Objections: 1004
Supporting: 1285
@srd was that the final score?
I had a knitted golliwog as a child. I am therefore Unsound.
So did I.
And a selection of Robertson’s badge.
And at least one Enid Blyton book.
Seem to remember the Rupert books had stereotype Chinese people.
Had several books with people in stripey jumpers and sacks over their backs.
Made me what I am today.
@gembo yup. i know it's a purely symbolic victory, but it would have grated if it had ended the other way.
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“Whilst I agree with the BLM ideas, though not necessarily pulling down monuments, I thought in this case, this is like a side effect – a memorial to a monument which is critical of monumentalism, the perception of power and those that support it.”
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Neither history nor biography cleaves easily into “good” and “bad”. Fewer cheap gestures, more real questioning, both of the past and the present, would be useful.
"David Hume's 'unenlightened' view of other races was as noted pretty standard for the time."
"Ordinary people of that time"
Standard for whom? Which ordinary people? There's a whole load of assumed viewpoint and who we think of as a "normal person" to unpack in the posts above. Note that when "most people" thought slavery was sort of okay that enslaved people knew it was a cruel wrong.
Also pretty disappointing that this forum can usually identify dithering delayism and "but change is too hard/too extreme" when it pertains to cycling and cars but not when it comes to systemic racism in the present or discussions of slavery and the mechanisms that upheld it in the past.
@unhurt when you say This forum you mean some of the people posting in this thread?
To be clear I am in favour of slavery.
Course u r.
@IWRATS presumably for others, not yourself? Or are you proposing your own bondage? If the latter, my windows need cleaning. So get to it, there's a good chap.
Or is this all just symbolic discourse? In which case:
I'm pretty comfortable with not having buildings named after people as blatantly racist as David Hume, regardless of whatever other contributions they made to society.
I am a bit ‘meh’ about them removing DHT but not actually doing something positive with it. We have so many un-ambitiously named buildings ‘50GS’ ‘Main Library’. Etc
Relatedly, Peter McColl points out the the student body voted to rename the union building in Bristo square ‘Nelson Mandela Bldg’. But it was repeatedly blocked from implementation. Would be nice to see that actually happen.
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A phrase that depicted solidarity with the victims of racial injustice has been rebranded by those who see it as a threat
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/20/black-lives-matter-rightwing-media
If the rule is that buildings can only be named after people whose views on all subjects are both currently uniformly acceptable and uniformly acceptable for the full lifetime of the building then the selection process will be difficult.
Best to stick with Education Block 9 etc.
“uniformly acceptable“ might be a bigger challenge than “and uniformly acceptable for the full lifetime“!
Could name them after birds, but perhaps only birds that don’t kill other birds (including cuckoos)?
This may or may not be true/relevant -
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This problem of induction means that to draw any causal inferences from past experience it is necessary to presuppose that the future will resemble the past, a presupposition which cannot itself be grounded in prior experience.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume
A new world arbitrated by collective Wikipedia contributors?
@unhurt Ordinary people of that time"Standard for whom? Which ordinary people? There's a whole load of assumed viewpoint and who we think of as a "normal person" to unpack in the posts above. Note that when "most people" thought slavery was sort of okay that enslaved people knew it was a cruel wrong.
Good question. I think it would be safe to say that 'most people' (meaning general Scottish population) rarely travelled outside their locale. Cattle drovers might see more of Scotland going to Falkirk Tryst Sailors would have stories they could share from visits to other countries - embellished of course.
Seeing someone from Africa would be rare.
Brings to mind the story of Joseph Knight. It was established that he could not be a slave under Scots Law. At the same time slavery still existed in coal mining etc.
More here. Also a book by James Roberston.
Slavery of Scots in Scotland ended in 1799. Mine owners had to pay for the children of their workers but the workers could not refuse the payment.
Sue Glover’s excellent play The Bondagers has slavery of women to the Ploo’men - bondaged servitude for a year.
Traverse was set up two grandstands either side of a massive brown earth field.
Half time my date Mrs Garto whispers to me What is the Ploo’men
This bondaged slavery of women was 19th century. In Scotland. Doubtless still going on somewhere.
Interesting. Who did the enforcing? Courts, laird, kirk or community?
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