CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Shared Use signage and mapping - inadequate or just me?

(12 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by Yodhrin
  • Latest reply from Murun Buchstansangur

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  1. Yodhrin
    Member

    So having had the ebike for a few weeks now and being out on it every other day, the novelty of my initial route along the water to Cramond & back is beginning to wear off enough I'm looking at other potential ways to potter about while staying off the roads as much as I can(I'm actually finding close passes less hair raising than I thought I would, but the thought of some junctions is still a bit much), but figuring out where to go is proving harder than I thought it would be.

    Google maps etc use the same marking to mean Quiet Route, some(but not all) unsegregated lanes(ie, Bicycle Gutters), and "there's a bus lane along a portion of the road, good luck we're all counting on you". Sometimes the marking for segregated track becomes the marking for the previous for no discernible reason. Trying to follow the routes on Streetview shows long stretches of the re-designated sidewalks along the really big roads with no signage at all to indicate where exactly a shared path starts or ends(even when the "tells" that it's switched to using an imageset from a different Streetview car run remain consistent, so there's no reason to believe there should be signs it's missing out on). One extremely busy road with a high speed limit will be marked as a shared pavement, another equally busy and fast road isn't.

    Is there actually a comprehensive map or list out there with a more granular level of detail, or do you just have to ride around and hope for the best?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    Get a Spokes map. Physical Spokes maps show proper off-road stuff in thick purple. On-road is a thin purple edge.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. Yodhrin
    Member

    I picked up the latest Spokes map the week after I got the bike, it's not complete either(understandably as it was last updated two years ago) and that's actually what got me started digging into Google etc - I know for certain it's missing a stretch of marked shared use sidewalk down at Lower Granton Road(not on Google either), and it still has the A8 between Ratho Station and Gyle Park marked as being on one side of the road only when it now appears to be both sides on Google maps.

    Having to cross-reference two or three sources and still not being sure if you've caught everything isn't very optimal.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Frenchy
    Member

    The CycleOSM layer for Openstreetmap is possibly the best online map for this.

    (I find the Cycle Map layer is less useful because it focuses on routes rather than infrastructure. So the signed "Ring Road" route, which goes along 40mph dual carriageway at Wester Hailes Road, is the same colour as the off road converted-railways network. I suspect this approach would be make more sense in countries with more sensible cycling infrastructure.)

    I also find cycle.travel very useful, although you do have to check the route it suggests. It is a bit too risk-averse for me, often suggesting wiggly routes along side streets when I'd prefer to just stick to the main road.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. boothym
    Member

    Google's biking layer is a bit of a mess and it's not easy to get it updated. Don't think the OS/Sustrans has anything suitable except for displaying their National Cycle Network routes.

    So I'd say apps or maps based on OpenStreetMap data are the best you're going to get at the moment. Of course these will only be as good as the actual data available in OSM, but at least you can add plenty of details - e.g. path/road surfaces, speed limits, access, barriers, routes, bike parking, etc.

    And if there's any part of the map which you think is incorrect - let us know here, or use the "add a note to the map" feature to pin point the location. You can also edit the map yourself if you wish.

    As mentioned above, have a look at CycleOSM (their website has a key to the map): https://www.cyclosm.org/#map=13/55.9458/-3.1910/cyclosm

    You can also see an overlay of cyclepaths on the OSM map here:
    https://www.cyclosm.org/#map=13/55.9458/-3.1910/openstreetmap-cyclosmlite

    @Frenchy from a zoomed out view yes, but once you zoom in to z13 you can see the dotted blue lines indicating a cyclepath.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    It would also be good if on the routes it at least told you want direction you were going. I always find Dunfermline very confusing if you decide to start exploring.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. Yodhrin
    Member

    Thanks @boothym, that OSM layer is so much easier to use with the actual key :P Would have been nice if the Google map differentiated suitability for bike type like that one does, I wouldn't have gotten myself lost in Cramond after failing miserably to get my Gazelle along the Almond trail, hah.

    Out of interest, do you know if there are any plans to add the SfP stuff that's survived the chop and gone to Experimental status, or will those not pop up unless and until they get made permanent in 18+ months?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. boothym
    Member

    Some SfP stuff is already on the map - e.g. the bits in Silverknowes, Queensferry Road/Learmouth Terrace, Gypsy Brae and Links Gardens closures. If there are changes on the ground then OSM can be altered to reflect that (so long as the stuff is going to be there for months rather than days).

    Though I've not kept up to date with what has been removed and what is being kept for a bit longer - is there a big list somewhere so that it can be checked against what's in OSM?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    I’m assuming the keen OSMers in Ed are (still) on the case - several are CCEers too!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. Yodhrin
    Member

    @boothym I think the best collated info would be the Spokes twitter comment about the results of the council vote: https://twitter.com/SpokesLothian/status/1408024610348666882

    In short, the on-street cycle routes are basically intact(including Lanark Road, for now - I don't see any of those marked at all) and the school street closures and connected quiet route extensions will remain, all under ETROs(so 18 months at least), but the various schemes in town centres(eg St John's Road) are being removed. I think the Tron>Cockburn Street>Waverly Bridge motor vehicle closure is also being retained.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. resurf
    Member

    > I’m assuming the keen OSMers in Ed are (still) on the case - several are CCEers too!

    Surprised to see Lanark Road SfP lanes not yet on OSM so I had a nice spin this evening to a) try them out for the first time and b) add to OSM so you should see them now on CycleOSM or equivalent - may take a day or two for the higher zoom scales to refresh.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Some bike BS bingo brought to you today by some of Dunfermline's SNP councillors and a 'lead consultant in sustainable travel':

    After local residents prompted Fife Council to change track on a new £700,000 cycle lane on Aberdour Road, Jean Hall-Muir said those who use bikes are "very much a law unto themselves".

    The Dunfermline Central SNP councillor asked officers if responsible behaviour could be "highlighted and enforced" as part of the proposals and said: "Cyclists do what they want.

    "If you provide a cycle lane they go on the road. If you point it out you get dog's abuse from the cyclists as they don't want to hear it from anyone else.

    ...

    Cllr Lynn Ballantyne-Wardlaw said: "One of the reasons cyclists shared with me, as to why they still cycle on the road rather than use cycle lanes, is that the detritus and mess that ends up on cycle lanes damages their wheels and they find it safer on the road."

    However Mr MacLean (ED: aforementioned 'lead consultant in sustainable travel'), who said he cycles to work, wasn't having it and said some cyclists were pedalling machines that "wouldn't look out of place in a cycle race" and questioned if they should be used for the average daily commute.

    He said had two bikes and added: "If you're aware there's likely to be a small amount of debris on a cycle track it's not unreasonable to choose your tyres accordingly."

    https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/23570720.dunfermline-residents-force-change-track-aberdour-road/

    So there you are peons, tug your forelocks to your drivist overlords and know your damned place.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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