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News from Ember Coaches

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  1. Tulyar
    Member

    Just had a nice exchange with Ember, the only scheduled 100% electric interurban coach service (in Europe?) between Edinburgh & Dundee

    They already carry more bikes per seat than trains, and are looking at more bikes per coach (c.60 seats?) than a train (c.260 seats) More soon

    Coaches make limited stops and never more than 0.5Km from M90/A92, so journeys are competitive with driving & finding a parking space

    Bike spaces are reservable on every service, and seats need to be reserved anyway (law prohibits standing on coaches)

    Posted 3 years ago #

  2. LaidBack
    Member

    Yes. They're a good bunch. Used a bit last year and having a mobile ticket with bike spaces made it easy.
    Staff bike friendly. Bikes can go in hold or space in board if wheelchair not booked on.
    Leave from Greenmarket in Dundee to St Andrews Square Edinburgh.
    Live bus tracking too.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  3. steveo
    Member

    Never heard of them might be useful for a wee bikepacking trip

    Posted 3 years ago #

  4. LaidBack
    Member

    @steveo - I've been trying to promote them here and Twitter as their buses were bit underused.
    Marcus Stitz of bikepacking fame did a lot of promo last year for Cateran Eco.
    Just shows you that it's hard to introduce a new service.
    I don't think Ember shows on Google route finder though which makes them invisible to many!
    They've been going for over a year but just early days as only have 2 buses, soon to be 4.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  5. Tulyar
    Member

    Outline discussion & outreach to Dundee Cycling if they (& some Fife folk) plan for a group at PoP. If a confirmed booking, some options of duplicate coach running. They are looking at up to 8 bikes on a 40-50 seat coach if advance demand is noted. Coaches are 3.4m integral 12m long. S Wales Transport put 35 bikes on a 3.2m 12m coach (49 seater) with high density packing (& no batteries taking up hold space)

    There are more than 2 coaches (have to be to ensure SVR for normal services with a weekly day off road for regular checks)

    Alex R & Alex with Ember aware

    Inbound with the services running via 'Airport' (stop at Gogarburn & use tram or cycle) could set people down to join Harrison Park feeder

    Expect interesting developments soon

    Posted 3 years ago #

  6. Greenroofer
    Member

    Prompted in part by @Laidback's promotion on here and in part by Transpennine Express cancelling my ticket and bike reservation on Saturday's 0615 EDB-PNR (for a ride home via Great Dunn Fell and Lowther Hill), I took an Ember bus + bike to Perth and rode home from there (via Dull and Ben Lawers, as you do).

    The bus was brilliant: cheaper than the train, guaranteed bike space, quicker than the train, comfortable and (at 0647) empty. I'd definitely use it again, and am now planning other adventures that use the bus to avoid 40 miles of cycling through boring bits of Fife.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  7. Frenchy
    Member

    Do you need a bike bag or can you just shove your bike in the hold?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  8. Greenroofer
    Member

    @Frenchy - not even in the hold. Mine went inside the cabin, and the driver was keener for that (I assume because it means the driver doesn't need to get out)

    Here's what the FAQ says (https://www.ember.to/faq/)

    "Yes, we love cycling. You can reserve a bike space whilst booking your ticket. We'll either carry your bike on board in the wheelchair space if there are no wheelchair users on board, or underneath in the hold. Note that we can't guarantee your bike will be carried upright and it is carried at your own risk (but we've carried hundreds of bikes without incident).

    Note that wheelchair users always take priority over bikes in the wheelchair space. This may mean moving your bike if a wheelchair user turns up at an intermediate stop. There should be plenty of space underneath for two bikes (our maximum capacity) but if there are any issues with space, the wheelchair user will have priority and we'll work to find you an alternative solution.

    We'd appreciate if your bike is clean but we have some bike bags onboard which you can use if it's a bit mucky. Folding bikes don't need to be booked, just turn up and get on. If you have a particularly large bike (e.g. a tandem), it's best to get in touch with us before booking to make sure it will fit."

    The bus I was on had what looked like an enormous bike rack on the back, but I don't know if that's what it actually was.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  9. neddie
    Member

    The hold doesn't have much height to it, so would be a struggle to get 2 full size bikes in it. We managed to get two kids bikes in the hold (with the handlebars turned round 90), but it was difficult to untangle them afterwards (!)

    A compact tandem would just about fit onboard with the front wheel off, but you'd never get a full size tandem onboard, neither in the hold (I wonder if they've ever tried?).

    Note that the disabled space is in between a partition and the back of some seats so space in the length direction is limited to exactly one-bike-length

    Also, you (or the driver) need to be able to lift your bike up 3 steep steps to get onboard. I imagine an e-bike would be a challenge.

    If putting bikes in the hold, there really needs to be something to tie them down, otherwise they just skid and bump about all over the place on the smooth floor, while lying on the pedals <scream emoji>

    That said, it is a good service and we managed to get the whole family + 2 adult bikes + 2 kids bike to Kinross and back for a day trip (We did have to blag / be nice to the driver to get 4 bikes in though)

    Posted 3 years ago #

  10. Greenroofer
    Member

    +1 for the steep steps up. You do need to confident that you can carry your bike up (and down).

    Posted 3 years ago #

  11. LaidBack
    Member

    We got our folding recliner tandem on twice last year. Think once inside and once in hold. Space very tight as height restricted from memory. Steps are very steep so not ideal.
    One bus has new bike rack on back. That won't be easy for an e-bike but useful for average mtb.
    Last year buses were very quiet but last week Mrs LB used and said they were packed. She got text message saying bus was 5 mins late.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  12. Tulyar
    Member

    Ember has a rear attaching receptacle on trial, its a Czech made unit similar to the FINK ones I've seen before, and carries up to 6 bikes hung vertically by the front wheel

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/h52/51990280072

    Not totally impressed by the basic design which seems to be very crude hooks and no use of the bikes' weight to hold them stable and in place

    I have pictures of a far better arrangement used on Swiss PTT buses which also attaches to the back of the bus/coach and uses the Orion Gamma units used on trains and trams across many European rail systems since the late 1980's

    I believe that Ember are looking at other routes, operating to a similar model, where the coaches never stray far from the main road - for example on the M9 using Junction 10 (and P&R site) for Stirling rather then a time cost of 15-20 min to drive through the centre via the bus station

    Stops on the A9 Perth-Inverness could be radically enhanced for an Ember-style route, Pitlochry and Dalwhinnie especially, and the existing Dundee-Edinburgh needs some work around the Friarton roundabout - getting a deal with the Willowgate Cafe, as a place to wait for the coach, and a bridge over the burn on the riverside track that takes you under the railway bridge and in to Perth (a volunteer project to get this route more serviceable for the less intrepid pioneers perhaps?)

    Posted 3 years ago #

  13. LaidBack
    Member

    Folding reclined tandem did fit on inside space. Easier getting it side on into hold although think there was a box that obstructed on this one of their two buses (not identical)

    Nazca Quetzal on Ember E-bus Dundee to Edinburgh

    Posted 3 years ago #

  14. steveo
    Member

    So a few years on, still positive?

    Just noticed they're going up to FT Bill from EDB now, that is more useful for a mtb trip.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  15. Morningsider
    Member

    Took the MTB up to Perth and back by Ember a few months ago. 29er just fitted in the bike space - could also have thrown it in the luggage compartment if needed. Drivers were super helpful and the electric coaches are nice to travel on. I'd recommend it.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  16. steveo
    Member

    I think my 29er will be a bit bigger but I'm sure I'll make it fit.

    Cheers mate!

    Reckon they'd make you remove luggage?

    Posted 1 month ago #

  17. Morningsider
    Member

    At worst you would need to take the front wheel off. Doubt there is much luggage in the hold. Most passengers seemed to be young folk using their free bus passes rather than tourists.

    Posted 1 month ago #

  18. steveo
    Member

    Cheers!

    Posted 1 month ago #

  19. Tulyar
    Member

    Ember are steadily increasing routes

    Started Inverness-Thurso in August, with their usual maximising use of electric coaches, which are best operated 24hr schedules

    Ember has a display on driver binnacle which shows ETA at next requested stop with a manifest (showing PU/SD pax) This data is updated in real time and you MUST book for all intermediate request stops. The added benefit is that the driver has a head-count & knows your name as well - A huge benefit for VI or any passenger requiring assistance, and also ensures that the hold side doors are opened for loading your bike (on newer coaches)

    Perhaps a few notes on growing fleet - latest coaches are now tri-axle & 14/ or 15 metre, plus 3.7m high-floor This means that the monocoque/integral body has clear space full width (approx 2.4 m) but the central gangway & central well toilet intrude into this space. However the outer area of hold has soffit at approx 1 metre high, so bikes placed lengthwise in hold could stand upright if bungeed to framing

    The law is very clear Coaches are limited to 100Kmh (62.5mph) ALL passengers MUST be seated (& seat belts worn) - a better deal than trains? You'll see statutory lettering by front door of coach inside - the original 2-axle 12 metre coaches were plated for 38-42 seats with 2 wheelchairs IIRC, the new ones I think at 65 seats. Nominally take 2 bikes, but in S Wales the express coaches Swansea-Cardiff-Bristol were providing a handy alternative to trains, with a supportive MD, He got 35 bikes in the hold of a 49-seat coach for a cycling club charter! I want to try for a Guinness Record attempt!

    We now have Glasgow-Dundee via M9, Edinburgh-Dundee via M90, with some services extending to Aberdeen, over 2 routes via Montrose & via Braemar
    Aberdeen to Inverness along A96
    Edinburgh to Fort Bill making a welcome return of a faster coach service via Callander after Citylink dropped the seasonal route years ago (but have now restored this ... hmm?)
    Glasgow Fort Bill goes via Glasgow Airport then A82

    Hints are to expect a Glasgow/Edinburgh-Inverness via A9 soon & possibly some competition on the crowded M8 corridor which already has 2 Flixbus coaches/hr 4 Citylink 900/hr 3 Citylink AIR/hr to EDI (then cycle or tram for 9 miles - a fit cyclist will easily beat tram!) plus 902 via Livingston/Coatbridge etc Between 23.00 and 05.00 900 and AIR combine and run hourly

    The late night services with the handy 'request stops' close to 'motorways' are getting popular

    On Saturday 16th I decided to catch up with Anna Hughes memorial ride for Tim McKenna which camped overnight at Kinross
    At 03.00 I booked on the 03.19 with my Pashley Mailstar (23Kg!) A good crowd of Friday night young revellers boarded (many using U22 bus passes, but one pair turned up & were shocked by price for not booking online, or having a bus pass...
    Several got off at Cumbernauld
    One on One off at Stirling
    A crowd for Dunblane
    One for Auchterader !
    One for Perth but got off at Broxden P&R*
    Then I got off at St Madoes (04.57) as this made a convenient change point for the E1 service (05.33) to Edinburgh This is a neat interchange - like Broxden (Perth) as coaches going each way loop through past the same stop, but Broxden has a 24hr convenience store at the P&R petrol station plus an indoor waiting room (mainly for the Citylink pax)
    A slightly noisy groups remained on the back seats to Dundee

    Some pester power thoughts to tackle folks

    The service to Thurso might be more useful if it went via the road end at John o Groats and Gill's Bay (where the Pentland Ferries service crosses to St Margarets Hope 3 times per day - this almost enables a day trip to Orkney from Inverness or vice verse - this means a coach service to Inverness from JoG as well after a LEJoG ride, to then change for coach or train South

    A stop at Bathgate (J3A - Boghall) near the old Motorola site added perhaps using the big Roundabout exit on to Pentland Road to turn and PU/SD with the nearby bus stops also served by 2 night bus services (N18 & N28) as well as local buses to Blackburn, Blackridge, Boghall & Livingston, plus 2 other express coach services (X27/28) for Midcalder/Livingston & (X18) for Whitburn to provide a connection to Glasgow without the need to take a slower longer & messier route. As a place to wait and trip chain/get a coffee there's also the Penny Petroleum petrol station. This I suspect would be a better place to stop that using Harthill Services, as the other 2 coach services do

    This could be like the stop at Bridge of Earn of at J8 M90 round the village green & back on the M90. One detail that this presses for is to deliver warm & comfy bus shelters - perhaps INSIDE a convenient pub or local shop? Bridge of Earn seriously needs a place like this, and the hourly local buses run by Glenfarg CT can make local connections

    Keep pressing Lothian Country too to carry cycles, starting with a trial using late night services on selected routes, to build this network

    H

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

  20. neddie
    Member

    I wonder if the Edinburgh - St Andrews Ride could be resurrected, with Ember providing special services to return riders *and bikes* back to Edinburgh?

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

  21. LaidBack
    Member

    Yesterday we boarded an Ember bus in Blairgowrie that had come over through Glenshee on A93.
    Was surprised and pleased to see this new route which means possibility of days out north of village. Limited stops at moment but we used to get to Dundee in 38 minutes (usually 50!).

    On 1 October our Dundee to Aberdeen via the Cairngorms service will be getting lots more stops, including Peterculter, Aboyne, Ballater, Glenshee and Coupar Angus. This small but mighty service gives you a direct link from Deeside to Aberdeen Airport, and from Aberdeen and Dundee into the heart of the Cairngorms for a day of walking, or skiing at Glenshee Ski Centre when winter comes.

    Take a look at our live map to see the new stops on both routes. Tickets are available now.

    It stays on A93 but gets within 4 miles of village. Can connect with the local school bus at Bridge of Cally or Blairgowrie. Member's ticketing is great and you get link with tracking (see LB Blue sky post). Also text messages if bus runs late. Can change or cancel tickets at no cost.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #

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