CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

20 mph expansion - consultation (and aftermaths)

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    just received this email:

    The Council is looking for views on proposals to expand the city’s network of 20mph streets, as well as lowering speed limits on roads that have limits of 40mph or more, which are mainly rural.

    20mph speed limit proposals map https://atkinsgeospatial.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=57e7b6b865774b1b8293a27124f2ec0d
    Rural road proposals map
    https://atkinsgeospatial.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=acd037bf39b5424ca59844deb8ca3e10

    Whatever your views about our speed limit proposals, we want to hear from you.

    Take part and complete the online survey which is available on the Council’s Consultation and Engagement Hub at http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/slowerspeeds.

    Please forward this email to any contacts that you feel would be interested in making their views heard on the proposals. The consultation is open and you can feedback until 8 February 2023.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  2. Dave
    Member

    The rural roads proposals go WAY further than I would ever have expected. It would be great if the council goes through with this, although it would also be nice if they dropped the speed limit to 30 on Riccarton Mains Road, Gogar Station Rd while they are at it. Worth a minute to fill in that one.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  3. SRD
    Moderator

    I'm please to see 20moh extended to Polwarth terrace and Colinton road , but baffled that they're proposing to leave it at 30 on the steep uphill bit with all the parking on it.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  4. LaidBack
    Member

    Very easy survey to make your views known. Whole of Polwarth should have been 20 before now and all for extending way beyond.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  5. SRD
    Moderator

    The main feedback section (interactive map) doesn't seem to work on safari - recommend using another browser.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  6. ejstubbs
    Member

    Disappointed to see no change being proposed for Braid Hills Drive. I definitely responded (positively) to a consultation a while back when it was proposed to reduce this to 30mph. Did it get lost somewhere, or is being treated as a project in its own right? (And to retain the 200m long stretch of 30mph between the current 40mph and 20mph limits seems just daft.)

    Likewise, what happened to the proposal to make Frogston Road 30mph all the way (i.e. removing the 40mph limit betwen Mounthooly Loan and the Klondyke)?

    To the best of my knowledge (i.e. I go that way pretty frequently) the first map has at least two errors: there is no existing 20mph zone on Colinton Road approaching the Firhill roundabout from Colinton Village, nor is there one in the vicinity of the drive leading to Merchiston Castle School.

    Any takers for making Gillespie Road 20mph?

    As ever, though, the issue is whether or not these limits will ever be enforced. I am constantly tailgated/overtaken* on Braid Road southbound after cresting the hill past Mortonhall Golf Club. (Northbound seems to generate slightly less aggro. I suspect this is a reflection of the impatient attitude of many of the southbound rat-runners avoiding Comiston Road.)

    * Even within the double white line bit.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  7. Frenchy
    Member

    Frogston Road speed limit reduction was approved in February 2020 - I'll ask for an update on implementation.

    The Braid Hills Drive speed limit reduction "is being progressed separately" by the active travel team (the long-delayed soft segregation project). So possibly both treated separately and lost somewhere...

    Lasswade Road and Burdiehouse Road are being done as part of the new housing developments.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  8. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I'll ask for an update on implementation.

    Could you ask that they make it 30mph for motor vehicles but 50mph eastbound for velomobiles? :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  9. Frenchy
    Member

    Could you ask that they make it 30mph for motor vehicles but 50mph eastbound for velomobiles? :)

    I thought cycling there at 40mph was terrifying enough!

    But I won't be suggesting that speed limits should apply to cyclists, no :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  10. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Frenchy: Thanks, would be interested to know of any progress on those other projects.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  11. Frenchy
    Member

    The 40 -> 30 speed limit reductions previously consulted on are expected to be implemented in the summer (2023, in case I come looking for this post again in several years time...).

    That's these ones.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    “in case I come looking for this post again in several years time...“

    I understand your ‘caution’!

    Posted 1 year ago #

  13. SRD
    Moderator

    bumping this thread in case anyone's not replied - closes on the 8th

    Posted 1 year ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Transport for London (TfL) has released new data that shows a significant reduction in the number of collisions since the implementation of 20mph speed limits on key roads in London. Lowering speed limits is a key part of the Mayor's Vision Zero goal to eliminate death and serious injury from London's transport network and to enable more walking and cycling in the capital.   

    “

    https://tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com/news/tfl-press-release-new-data-showssignificantimprovements-in-road-safety-in-london-since-introduction-of20mphspeed-limits

    Posted 1 year ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    Just playing with ChatGPT

    “What does citycyclingedinburgh think of 20mph”

    “

    ChatGPT

    As an AI language model, I don't have personal opinions or beliefs. However, I can provide you with some general information about the views on 20mph speed limits in Edinburgh from various sources.

    CityCyclingEdinburgh is a website that covers cycling news and issues in Edinburgh, Scotland. The website has published several articles on the introduction of 20mph speed limits in the city. In general, the website supports the implementation of lower speed limits to improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians, and to create a more pleasant environment for people who live, work and play in the city.

    For example, a 2018 article on the website states that "lower speeds reduce the chances of collisions and reduce the severity of those that do occur. They also make the streets more pleasant places to be, for everyone. They are good for health, good for the environment, and good for social justice."

    However, the website has also expressed concerns about the enforcement of the 20mph speed limits, and the need for more education and awareness-raising campaigns to encourage drivers to comply with the new rules. Additionally, some articles on the website suggest that more needs to be done to make cycling and walking safer in the city, such as creating more segregated bike lanes and reducing the amount of through traffic in residential areas.

    Overall, it appears that CityCyclingEdinburgh is generally supportive of the introduction of 20mph speed limits in the city, but also recognizes that more needs to be done to create a safer and more pleasant environment for all road users.

    “

    Seems fair!

    Posted 1 year ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/midlothian-roads-could-have-speeds-lowered-from-30mph-to-20mph-after-plans-given-go-ahead-4137051

    Posted 1 year ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Interesting #WestLothian #SpeedLimits story from
    @EdinReporter

    --> https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/07/council-has-no-cash-for-research-on-speed-limits/

    20mph limits under #SpacesForPeople were scrapped for a wider review - but now there's no cash for it!

    Local communities liked the 20s
    but drivers didn't...

    “

    https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/1678325656411668482

    Posted 1 year ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    “

    20mph reduction was well supported in kirknewton biggest issue is complaints about speeding drivers. Told by council that removed due to poor feedback in online consultation. Again consultation is not referendum!

    “

    https://twitter.com/neilginscotland/status/1678336136576475136

    Posted 1 year ago #

  19. gembo
    Member

    West Lothian Council also took out the cycle lane in Kirknewton and made a pavement very wide but they have just left the wide pavement and not reinstated the bike lane. This forces the cyclist out into the middle of the speeding drivers.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Drivers have been warned not to rely on sat-navs for the speed limit on residential roads in Wales when it is reduced to 20mph from 30mph on Sunday.

    Some GPS firms say map updates might not be immediate when Wales becomes the first UK nation to adopt 20mph (32km/h) in built-up areas.

    “

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66774380

    Posted 1 year ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    This is just pathetic, shameful, ‘politics’.

    “

    The new 20mph speed limit for Wales' residential roads is "insane", according to a UK cabinet minister.

    Commons leader Penny Mordaunt called having such a limit as the default for many roads "crazy", but agreed there are places where 20mph is a good idea.

    Ms Mordaunt went on to accuse Labour of "punishing" motorists.

    The Welsh government says that cutting the speed from 30mph to 20mph on most residential roads would protect lives and save the Welsh NHS £92m a year.

    “

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66802351

    Posted 1 year ago #

  22. acsimpson
    Member

    Given the tosh coming out of the Tory party just now and the death and carnage is causing can we just skip to the but where they are banned as a terrorist organisation?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  23. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Local communities liked the 20s
    but drivers didn't...

    This is basically the corollary to why villages and towns and cities exist. The point of them is to make people stop: to trade, to live, to socialise.

    If people want to drive through them, they can go and drive around them instead.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The Labour-led Welsh government has said introducing a default 20mph speed limit for residential roads is one of the most significant changes in 25 years of devolution and has accused the Tories of waging a “culture war” against it.

    From Sunday, most roads in Wales that were 30mph have become 20mph, although councils have discretion to impose exemptions.

    Lee Waters, the deputy minister for climate change, said: “It’s a big deal. I do think it’s one of the most significant things that we’ve done since devolution in 25 years if you think of the impact it’s going to have.

    “There’s not a community in Wales that’s not going to be touched by this. It’s one of those policies that has got real cut-through. This is something everybody has heard of and most people have an opinion about.”

    Wales becomes the first country in the UK to introduce the 20mph limit, a move that has been welcomed by road campaigners but is unpopular among many voters.

    Waters said the administration had expected opposition to grow as the law came into force.

    “Three years ago we polled and got 80% support. A year ago we got 60% support. There was a poll last week showing it had gone down to 35%. I’m not surprised it’s dipping particularly given the misinformation there is. We’re expecting it to rise as people get used to it.

    “

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/17/welsh-minister-says-tories-waging-culture-war-over-new-20mph-limits

    Leadership lessons for SA?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Hope the Tories took an equally strong stance against the Scottish Borders council's decision to do the same thing a few years back...

    “

    https://twitter.com/sallyhinch/status/1703377161313296482

    “

    Or does it not count when Tory led administrations do it? (the Borders 20mph limits are pretty epic by the way - almost no exemptions and rolled out at lightning speed across every wee village and town in an almost entirely rural area)

    “

    https://twitter.com/sallyhinch/status/1703379250122719698

    Posted 1 year ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The scheme to reduce the default speed limit for residential areas from 30mph came into force yesterday, affecting 7,700 miles of road. Conservatives said that the plans were “anti-worker, anti-road and anti-motorist”, but Welsh Labour ministers said that it would cut pollution and save lives.

    “

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/20mph-limits-for-almost-half-the-population-rgg2nskbm

    Posted 1 year ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The foot soldiers fighting back against the “war on the motorist” have been given plenty of ammunition lately. As low-traffic neighbourhoods continue to be adopted across the UK and Ulez has been expanded to greater London, the latest policy to provoke their ire is the imposition of a 20mph speed limit in residential areas across Wales.

    Out in the real world, on the streets rather than on social media, of course motorists are not being marginalised. The very concept is a daft jibe that looks good in a headline but makes no sense whatsoever on closer examination. It is people – cyclists, walkers, pedestrians, schoolchildren – who have been under assault from the way in which cars have been allowed to dominate our lives.

    “

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/20/dear-drivers-steady-as-you-go-at-20mph-and-welcome-to-the-future

    Posted 1 year ago #

  28. pringlis
    Member

    This all reminds me that TRO/20/07 which reduces the speed limit from 30->20mph on another dozen streets was approved at committee in January 2021 and signed into law in December 2021 still hasn't actually been implemented. I get really angry about this as it's so straightforward to implement (a few signs, and some paint?) but they keep delaying it due to lack of resources. Time to chase again...

    Posted 1 year ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    “Time to chase again...“

    GOOD

    IF that includes social media please post a link.

    Did see a Tweet about Corstorphine Road 40->30mph recently.

    Same decision date and excuse?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  30. pringlis
    Member

    By email for now. Funny story (well, to me) in the past I was so incessant about emailing about something that they mistook me for a councillor and replied saying "Sorry Councillor Inglis, in future please use this email for correspondence" and supplied a link to a "Transport (VIP Use)" email address. (I can supply by DM but I tend to use sparingly in case they cut it off). Since then I have reasonable success getting responses, they just vary in helpfulness. It's usually just a holding email saying they're low on resources/etc. Last one I had on this was just filler/copy pasta:

    The completion of the Council’s Transport Review led to the Road Safety team transitioning from Sustainable Development to Network Management & Enforcement, where it has been aligned with the recently formed Local Traffic team. While this provides an opportunity for improved delivery of Road Safety projects, it requires a re-evaluation of our existing commitments and the Road Safety Delivery Plan to April 2024 against changing resource availably, in both the Road Safety and Local Transport teams and their agreed budgets, to reconsider the delivery programme for 2023/2024 onward into 2025. However, the implementation of the 20mph extension remains one of our priorities and the team will develop the works package shortly.

    Trying to find out if it's also March for this now too, yes. I've mentioned transparency in the past to them too - things tend to just slip off the works list that's published at transport committee when it suits them. There was a Business Bulletin on 20mph updates a few months ago but nothing since.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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