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Trams to Granton

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  1. Dave
    Member

    They couldn't manage to retain a high quality pedestrian & active travel experience on the existing line even when they had a billion to play with and virtually unlimited time to plan and deliver it.

    The most likely scenario is that councillors vote to put the tram down Roseburn path with a meaningless commitment to active travel, knowing that they can later announce it was unexpectedly difficult / expensive / impossible and has to be value engineered out. That staggers the bad news in a way that is less likely to lead to focused protest.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    An option for building Edinburgh's new north-south tram route up Orchard Brae and across Dean Bridge should be dropped because it is "not feasible", a former city transport convener has said.

    Ex-Labour councillor Lesley Hinds told a public meeting the original "line 1b" plan to run trams along the former railway which is now the Roseburn cycle path was the only viable route.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-north-south-tramline-public-meeting-hears-plea-to-drop-orchard-brae-route-and-go-for-roseburn-path-4656323

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    The discussion was a little muted without many up to date details provided, and certainly without the high emotion which has been displayed on social media. The current Transport Convener, Cllr Scott Arthur, is out on the election trail as a candidate, and so could not be on the panel. If he had been – or if any councillors from the Transport Committee had been – then the discussion might, in our view, have been more meaningful and informative and might have produced some solutions or suggestions.

    https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2024/06/tram-to-granton-the-options-discussed

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    Our Spokes public meeting on the proposed Granton tramline extension was jammed, with the hall at capacity, the gallery opened, and 20 or more latecomers still having to be turned away – over 200 in total! Whilst many issues were raised, the future of the Roseburn walking/cycling path was the top issue raised in discussion, with many in the audience seemingly unconvinced that any form of path would remain if the tram uses the Roseburn route.

    http://www.spokes.org.uk/2024/06/granton-tramline-spokesmtg-sellout/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    Last Sunday, I discovered parts of Edinburgh I am embarrassed to admit I had never visited before. I took part in my first Edinburgh Kiltwalk to raise money for girls’ education in Malawi, and the five-mile route took me from Victoria Park in Leith to Murrayfield along the Roseburn Path.

    Parts of the route have been earmarked by the city council as the "preferred option” for the new tramline proposed between Granton and the city centre. The other route under consideration is via Orchard Brae. Don’t get me wrong, I love Edinburgh’s trams. In fact, I jumped on one after I finished the Kiltwalk on Sunday, and it is by far the best way to travel to the airport from the city centre. But surely we need a balance in our city’s transport infrastructure, with our few remaining green spaces protected.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/roseburn-path-offers-oasis-of-calm-but-not-for-much-longer-if-city-planners-get-their-way-susan-dalgety-4790908

    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    Saving Roseburn Path

    A second petition has been established to support “saving” the Roseburn Path from development by the council for a north south tram route to Granton – where around 4,500 new homes are being built. This one is set up by Dr Suzy Scarlett

    https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2025/03/five-things-you-need-to-know-today-1852/

    Posted 6 months ago #
  7. gembo
    Member

    Any linkee to the Scarlett petition?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

  9. chdot
    Admin

    On a balmy May morning, I reached the Roseburn Path by bike, coming onto the leafy corridor of this former railway track from the south after a cycle through the city, via Haymarket, to “check the trams” and their new “tap on, tap off” system.

    Cycling through this sun-shot emerald glade, I thought of the words of Euan Baxter, founder of Save Roseburn Path, who has described the cycle network in North Edinburgh as a tree, in which the Roseburn Path is the trunk, branching out to numerous other routes, across the city, including to my home in Leith.

    This is a path that, according to data from Sustrans, is said to have around half a million users in a year and is home, say Save Roseburn Path, to 3,500 trees. On a Strava heat map of the cycle paths it is a warm red, showing the intensity of its use.

    https://archive.ph/2025.06.03-061207/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25190524.roseburn-path-backlash-derail-new-edinburgh-tram-plan/

    Posted 3 months ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

  11. chdot
    Admin

    The Save Roseburn Path campaign is inviting locals to meet for a community event today at 5.30pm. Organisers say: “There will be stories, songs, poems and a nature walk, as well as an opportunity to stop by, say hello and spend time in one of the Edinburgh’s most cherished green spaces.” - More details here.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/DNTmVSIoRhq/

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  12. spytfyre
    Member

    <Angry face emoji>

    That is all I have to say about this subject
    :(

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  13. spytfyre
    Member

    no - it really is

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  14. Yodhrin
    Member

    There will be stories, songs, poems and a nature walk

    I wonder if there will also be factual information, for a change.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin


    Join Euan Baxter of the Save the Roseburn Path campaign and me as we walk the Telford and Roseburn paths on his morning commute. Once a railway line, the Paths were opened in the eighties by cycling campaigners and the route is now teeming with cyclists, walkers and runners either commuting or just enjoying their local stretch of nature. With trees, birds and other wildlife it's a valuable part of Edinburgh's parklands.

    https://edinburghoutdoors.podbean.com/e/walking-the-roseburn-path/

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  16. neddie
    Member

    British Trams' take:

    http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/news/?p=59624

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

    Trams to Granton, BioQuarter and Beyond Orchard Brae Corridor Dean Bridge Structures Report

    https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/37895/rp04a-dean-bridge-structures-report-final?

    Posted 1 week ago #
  19. Dave
    Member

    It feels naive to imagine any scenario where scotgov would find an extra £300m to keep the old rail bed free of light rail.

    At the same time, I cannot believe that a council willing to spend an entire term dedicating their agenda to ripping up existing on-road facilities is remotely going to deliver a high quality alternative route for active travel

    Enjoy it while you can?

    Posted 1 week ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    “Enjoy it while you can?

    For many years to come probably.

    I’m not aware of any credible explanation for ‘where the money will come from’.

    Never been sure ‘tram to Granton’ was ever a rational priority. Obviously ‘easier’ because of the Roseburn Corridor - ‘who cares about a few cyclists and nature?’

    Now a significant ‘reason’ is ‘well it’s been through the Parliamentary process so we have permission’.

    IF Granton is such a desirable/essential destination, why is the (once planned) short extension from Newhaven FIRMLY off the table?

    Are there any credible, costed, plans for a tramline to the Royal Infirmary “and beyond”?

    Has anything been ‘agreed’ about the Sheriffhall Roundabout?

    ThisIsEdinburgh

    Posted 1 week ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

  22. neddie
    Member

    I’m not prepared to believe they’ll single-track the tram along the Roseburn path.

    They’ll wait until the detailed designs are out, then claim, ”oh, it’s too late, we couldn’t fit a bike path in”

    It’s clear from the fact there won’t be a bus-gate or any bike lanes on North Bridge that they are not the slightest bit interested in providing any proper cycling facilities at all!

    My prediction for North Bridge:

    In the initial designs, it’ll be 5 lanes - 2 for tram, 2 for general traffic, and 1 bus lane/bus stops. There won’t be any protected cycle lanes, which Spokes will then kick up a fuss about. Then the designers will try to squeeze in some bike lanes, a la Leith Walk, resulting in a compromised mess that works for no one

    Posted 1 week ago #
  23. cb
    Member

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3r4yy9ddp1o

    "
    proposal would see "narrower" trams run on a single line
    "

    Narrower trams?

    Posted 1 week ago #
  24. jdanielp
    Member

    Trms

    Posted 1 week ago #
  25. Morningsider
    Member

    @jdanielp - actually laughed out loud at that.

    Anyway, I know I keep banging on about this - but the tram extension is not going to happen as there is no cash. The Scottish Government have stated several times that they won't fund it. The Council is in no position to borrow billions for one project. Private finance could be an option - but the annual finance payments would strangle the Council's revenue budget for things like schools and social work. So that seems politically impossible.

    For once, I'm happy to let this one slide by.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  26. Yodhrin
    Member

    I'm not tbh. The SG have plenty of money available they're just spending it on the wrong things, and the Council are perfectly capable of designing a version of Roseburn with trams and active travel that doesn't actually reduce the "nature" all that much(long term) despite the catastrophising of the Roseburn Corridor People's Front, they're just too fond of "consulting" and "reports" that end up wasting a bunch of the budget for projects which then have to be "value engineered". Edinburgh is a decent size, a capital city, and wants(supposedly) to be greener so a proper mass transit *system* - not just one line - makes all the sense in the world and plenty of European cities and towns - even ones smaller and far less affluent than Edinburgh - are perfectly capable of pulling it off.

    We've become too used to being resigned to things just being a bit ****, but we shouldn't be resigned to it.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    All that is true, but relies on levels of optimism (and rational thinking) that I’ve given up on.

    There’s no doubt the ‘consultation culture’ is a part of the problem - especially when it’s seen as a referendum (especially by those with narrow political interests).

    The last ‘big’ transport initiative (apart from the first attempt at trams that required an absurd amount of money to find out ‘why it went wrong’!) was the Greenways.

    CEC didn’t even manage to keep them in good condition or green!

    All things are possible. Some are much more likely than others.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  28. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I think that putting trams down the NEPN between Roseburn and Crewe Toll is a stupid idea for the most part, for reasons I've written about before, but essentially, trams, like buses and trains, have to do two things:

    • Pick up and drop off people at popular, useful locations
    • Get between those locations as fast as possible

    Unlike trains, trams are designed to snake their way left and right and up and down through tight places, so you can serve on-road locations as required, dive underground as required, and it's stupid not to take advantage of that.

    Trying to serve both Craigleith retail park and the WGH using the railway alignment alone does neither well. Trying to put trams over the Dean Bridge is engineeringly hard.

    My solution would be:
    1) Sacrifice some of the NEPN, from Roseburn to South Groathill Avenue.
    2) Build a stop right at the pedestrian entrance to the retail park.
    3) On-road running onto Telford Road.
    4) Build a stop next to the WGH western entrance.
    5) On-road running on Telford Road and Ferry Road.
    6) On-road running as far as Granton Road, then a descent off Granton Road to the NEPN eastbound.
    7) Sacrifice some of the NEPN, from Granton Road to Craighall Road.
    8) Sacrifice the Victoria Path access to Victoria Park, running a loop up to join Craighall Road northbound.
    9) On-road running on Craighall Road to Pier Place and Lindsay Road to join the existing route.

    If they can build that, there will I'm sure be money to later build a loop line that connects Crewe Toll, Granton and Newhaven, and a spur from Princes St to the RIE and beyhond. I reckon running the trams up the Mound, along Forest Road, MMW, Melville Drive, Minto St, Lady Road and the RIE is probably quite sensible, as it would bring footfall for the university, and it would be easy to realign MMW paths.

    It's all so much armchair thinking though. Much as I really like the trams, I think we are unlikely to see any of it built unless Council Tax goes up a lot and we get some kind of congestion charge (heh, maybe on-road trams would be a cost neutral approach...).

    It does beg the question how Edinburgh Corporation managed to afford cable trams across much of the (much smaller) city, and then afford to convert them all to electricity and expand the network, when we didn't even have computers.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  29. wingpig
    Member

    It's a shame someone recently built a new block of flats just to the west of the path just north of Craigleith, reducing the options for widening that bit.
    There are lots of mights and coulds and woulds and mays and likelys doing a lot of work in some of the documents.
    They might have learned from previous errors and uproars, but is it likely?

    Posted 1 week ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    Re trams to various places in North Ed

    Priority?

    The City of Edinburgh had the lowest total fertility rate in the country (0.99), followed by Glasgow City (1.05) and Aberdeen City (1.06).

    Midlothian (1.66), East Renfrewshire (1.56) and Na h-Eileanan Siar (1.51) had the highest fertility rates.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c209en3zwyko.amp

    Posted 1 week ago #

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