“Ok but I think MR hart has an actual manifesto we should get behind”
Ok but I think there must be a link to it…
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Whitehouse Road cyclist down
(81 posts)-
Posted 8 months ago #
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From the Police statement:
struck by a bin lorry on Whitehouse Loan
It wasn't Whitehouse Loan, it was Whitehouse Road - completely different area of the city. FFS, talk about confusing streets at a very sensitive time for Whitehouse Loan
Posted 8 months ago # -
- No HGVs in and out of the Burgess at school travel times.
- No deliveries to the shops at school travel times.
- Reduce the width of the Burgess exit.
- Speed bump on approach to the Burgess exit.
- Longer term: segregation to Cramond Primary and further.
- Hasten 20mph on Whitehouse Road.
HGV management issues will need intervention from elsewhere, but I reckon I can make that list happen with local engagement.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Good luck to him. The other day I was wondering why it hasn't really affected me, even though our kids are a similar age. Is it possible to have so much learned helplessness that not even the killing of a child can stir you to action? I felt kind of meta sad about that for a while.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Think I've only ever been to Whitehouse Road via the crossing as part of NCN 1/76, refreshing my memory of it on Street View it's a wide 30mph road with hatching down the middle, plenty of space for infrastructure along its length (especially up the hills either side of the crossing).
Also looking at a map, if travelling to the primary school or Crammond from the housing estate south of the golf course then basically the only way north is via Whitehouse Road as there's no connection to Barnton Avenue and the NCN.
Posted 8 months ago # -
An emergency motion being tabled at the council's transport and environment committee on Thursday, March 7, will call on officials to "consider as a matter of urgency what actions are required to improve safety within this area," once they visit the site where the incident occurred and "any police feedback is received".
Local councillor Kevin Lang, who is calling for the emergency debate to be held, said…
““It is right that the police are given time to investigate the circumstances and determine the full facts of what happened last Friday. I know there will then be a joint on-site meeting with council road safety officers."However, as soon as we have conclusions, it is vital that the council considers what actions are necessary to improve safety in this area.
“We cannot turn the clock back, but we can look forward and make it a priority to ensure such a terrible situation does not happen again.”
It’s best that I don’t say what I’m thinking about Cllr Lang at the moment.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Perhaps he has had a damascene conversion?
Posted 8 months ago # -
Perhaps he has had a damascene conversion?
He’s certainly had a Saulite dedication to the persecution part.
I’d gladly kick against that prick (see Acts 9)
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
What happened on Friday was awful, and I can’t stop thinking about it. In such a small city we all feel the impact of this tragic death, and must now work to ensure it is not repeated.
We all share the desire for children to be able to walk or cycle safely to school, and must work together to achieve that.
The Council is still awaiting information on what happened, and at the Transport and Environment Committee on Thursday we will put a process in place (via @kevin_lang's motion) which means we can respond quicky and robustly to the incident report.
I will work to ensure budget is not a barrier to addressing any actions arising from this process.
In the interim, I am happy to work with the local community and Ward councillors on interim measures.
“
https://x.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1765097703053140466
This is actually NOT good.
SA says ‘we don’t know what happened, but I’ll get money to make sure…’
To make sure what?
The same thing doesn’t happen at the same place?
Another person doesn’t get killed on that road?
Another person doesn’t get killed on any road (in Edinburgh)?
Another child doesn’t get killed on a road?
Another child doesn’t get killed riding a bike?
Another child doesn’t get killed riding a bike to school?
Etc.
Something (some things) needs to be done, but reacting to one tragic event in this way just highlights how broken the whole system is.
Posted 8 months ago # -
@Murun King James Version. Nick cave had a whole album of covers for Cllr Lang
Posted 8 months ago # -
Yet at the same meeting as all this hand wringing, the Committee will be voting to remove the protection offered by the southern half of the Greenbank-Meadows quiet route to kids walking and cycling to South Morningside Primary School.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Calling them short-sighted is an insult to glasses wears. They have blood on their hands and they know it.
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
An emergency debate is to be held by Edinburgh’s councillors this week following the death of an 11 year-old boy who was hit by a bin lorry.
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
we can look forward and make it a priority to ensure such a terrible situation does not happen again
Simply by fitting Lanark Road style protected cycle lanes between Barnton and Cramond. We already know it would cost a fraction of the money cllrs want to spend reopening Silverknowes or the Braids to private cars traffic.
Oh, "we must do anything except provide actual cheap effective infrastructure"... quelle surprise
Posted 8 months ago # -
Quote from article posted above: City transport chief Scott Arthur said the council must now “work to ensure it is not repeated”, a broken record repeating the same phrases after every avoidable death.
But in this case, the Transport Convener was at a public meeting the night before saying that making the cities roads safer was too expensive and not popular enough for his political ambitions...
Posted 8 months ago # -
Whitehouse Road closed again tonight following another collision.
https://twitter.com/harts_cyclery/status/1765463221115232709
Posted 8 months ago # -
Well, according to Farrier, mile for mile, cyclists probably kill more people than drivers, so no need for all this fuss.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Late to this, but have analysed the images, and have had an incident myself with NWH refuse truck driver in Glasgow, which I was not pleased about. Operating driver only (as many commercial waste collection operators do) he reversed at speed towards a busy area for pedestrian traffic crossing the M8 exit (Westbound)/A804 under the long bridge. I side stepped to avoid being hit and had a few choice words about the lack of any attendant on foot to take control of ALL traffic movements (including the driver)
I'd also note that another 11 year old was also killed by a refuse truck driver just outside the city a few weeks earlier this year, but less detail on this is available
I've tracked refuse truck RTC with an especial focus in the fact that these vehicles are often working in narrow back lanes
with, only a driver and no additional crew to manage reversing & other movementsFirst the NWH vehicle is a refuse truck operating driver only (unlike most council trucks). From images it is difficult to see if there are any marks on front valance where victim & bike were struck - apart from some unclear detail on offside front corner. Class 6 mirror position looks very 'tight' for seeing what is in blind zone across front of truck. Victim's bike is trapped under centre of truck in some images, with truck raised on blocks to get bike out in other images. Police marker pins for evidence collection extend behind truck suggesit nthat driver travelled a short distance before stopping completely (In Lavender Hill fatal RTC Lucia Ciccioli, driver travelled nearly 200metres dragging bike under tractor) As with most of NWH fleet has a 'vanity plate' registration B9 NWH
In 2014 Glasgow Council fined £20,000 (section 3 HSAWA offence)for killing a pensioner when unsupervised reversing (recycling collection). In 2016 Stirling Council also killed pensioner with unsupervised reversing. Post 2014 George Square crash (6 killed by driver with medical condition who had moved jobs & new employer not aware of issues) a further 2 refuse truck crashes (Glasgow & Midlothian) where truck drivers passed out when driving trucks. Eilidh Cairns was killed by a driver who wouldn't wear his prescription glasses, & 3 years later, after a trail of minor crashes, same driver also killed Nora Guttman - holocaust survivor by driving into her on pedestrian crossing. After another tipper driver had slow crash into JCB when laying tarmac, when he passed out, company put all drivers through gold-standard (ie commercial airline pilot/train driver) medicals & 30% of their drivers needed medication or similar interventions to retain Class C licences for HGV driving
Sorry its a bit long - my dad was known as The Reverend because his reports were like great sermons.
There are a few crowd sourced polls I'll ask for here, plus some help/resources to keep doing things like this effectively
- collate reports of refuse truck RTC over say past 10 years
- review & collate details of 32T rigids (tipper trucks) in RTC where it is often the 2nd driver in a loose 'convoy' who hits the victim (from behinds in 80% of fatal RTC - from Met Police investigators' comments), a critical detail for current consultation on platooning HGV's on major roadsWith a last detail on delivering a system that can stop victims from going under 1 or more 9 ton axles when the truck knocks them down. A proven system but at around 1% of the cost for a new truck, its too expensive, and a faff to use, for operators to consider fitting
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
The message is clear: We bike bus today for safer cycling tomorrow.
In the past month two children, Elizabeth Bell, and Thomas Wong, both 11, have been killed on Scotland's roads while using active travel to make their way to school.
“
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24172960.shawlands-bike-bus-rides-thomas-wong-elizabeth-bell/
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
Paul Lawrence, director of place, told them it was officials’ intention to look at “immediate” actions, which could include drawing up temporary road orders, as well as long-term “substantive measures” for the area as he addressed the transport and environment committee on Thursday, march 7.
Among suggestions made by cycling group Spokes at the meeting was to restrict HGV movements at school travel times, increase the number of speed bumps and create more pavement space in front of the Barnton shops.
“
Posted 8 months ago # -
“
An Edinburgh councillor is calling for heavy goods vehicles owned by the local authority to be restricted from driving near schools and nurseries during key travel times after an 11-year-old was hit and killed by a bin lorry.
…
Kevin Lang, who represents Cramond and Barnton as Lib Dem councillor for the Almond ward, will table a motion next week calling on officials to review the operation of waste collection services across Edinburgh to ensure bin lorries do not not operate near schools and nurseries at their start and finish times.
“
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/call-ban-edinburgh-bin-lorries-28817081
Posted 8 months ago # -
Although it's obviously a far inferior solution to a bollard cycle lane on Whitehouse Rd, which would have protected this child all the way from Maybury jn to Cramond primary, it's not a terrible idea. I wonder how it will work in practice though. No bin lorry to use Whitehouse Rd until schools are in means they can't start collection in Cramond at all until 9am, rather than 6am
Posted 8 months ago # -
Also, what percentage of HGV and bus movements is "council operated bin lorries"?
Posted 8 months ago # -
The bin lorry involved was not owned by the local authorities, so there will be no effect
At the last count, there were 15 different waste management contracting companies working for the council, and the council owns none of those lorries and can have no control over them (unless they apply a blanket prohibition to all lorries)
Posted 8 months ago # -
I'm not surprised that it's taken so little time for Kevin to chop it off doing whatever it takes. Instead offering an unworkable non solution.
Thomas died almost a mile from school. How much of the city is not within a mile of either a school or nursery?
As Neddie points out stopping the council bin lorries doing their job does nothing to mitigate the risk of this tragedy repeating.
I think it was Tulyar above who suggested council lorries are lower risk as they have multiple operators on board.
Posted 8 months ago # -
I saw a council bin lorry driver drive on the pavement outside a nursery this morning. I have sent a complaint.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Posted 8 months ago #
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@Dave that's a nice map. Is even more comprehensive coverage than I thought. The gap in the west is covered by East Craigs and the future Maybury Primaries.
Another thought on this after our bin has been collected by a low cab lorry. What percentage of council lorries are now the newer low cab design?
Posted 8 months ago # -
@ Dave
Very useful map!
Posted 8 months ago # -
@ acsimpson
“What percentage of council lorries are now the newer low cab design?“
Extre questions are -
whether the one on Whitehouse Rd was doing a job for CEC?
are all such vehicles working for CEC owned and staffed by CEC?
how many private collection routes/vehicles are there?
Posted 8 months ago #
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