CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Ebike dilemma

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  1. Dave
    Member

    We've had our GSD for four years and I'm now at the point of accepting we've outgrown it. It's gone surprisingly quickly from being able to squeeze in a third P3 to run to a class, to bring more trouble than it's worth with two P4s.

    It's cost 10p a mile in parts and £1k a year in capital. With the newer £££ models it could have been going on for £2k a year.

    I really miss the capability, and I looked into fabricating a longer bench but the problem is that the motor power isn't really sufficient either, as we can't maintain over 10mph on some routes even in turbo (it's actually quite interesting, where we took it sort of gradually evolved to a smaller and smaller set of trips as the payload got heavier).

    There was a glimmer of hope for a bit, but I see the consultation to allow more powerful motors with the same speed limits has been killed off, so I think that's the end of the line.

    It's not so much delayed buyer's remorse, I don't think, but maybe I feel a bit uneasy that I've oversold it down the years. We actually got ours just after another nursery family but I haven't seen them it for a long time. For most people it's a lot of money.

    Not sure there's really a point to this ramble, I'm just waiting in the role of Dad's taxi and ruminating....

    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. Dave
    Member

    It could just be that bringing up kids is difficult. Another thing that's happened is that we taught them road craft and not to ride on the pavement from the year zero, but now they absolutely refuse to cycle on the pavement, but we have to make rush hour journeys and/or use very busy roads to get to various classes. Having two eight year olds wobbling around at different speeds on their own bikes across big junctions and around parked cars on busy roads has turned out to be above my comfort zone

    Posted 1 month ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    Bringin up children is tricky

    Only one of my lot had any interest in cycling. THe one who actually pedalled on the tagalong.

    Teach them to dismount and push on pavement

    Posted 1 month ago #
  4. Dave
    Member

    They would go on the pavement if I was also pushing, that's true. But then it just takes so long to get anywhere. I guess in the broader picture we're at a low point, too big to cycle them on the back, but in a few years we can force them to take the bus on their own and it won't matter (to us) that it takes an hour longer? E.g. the 45 would take them to music class but gets there about half an hour early, plus leave the house 15 mins earlier to catch it)

    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I suppose, thinking about Laid Back's history of tandemming, there is always the Thorn Trident* if you need a family car that is a bike, but they are sure thin on the ground. The GSD seems like too good a utility tool to not have though, especially if the cost is sunk.

    Road riding at 8 y/o is more advanced than I was at that age. It took being told off by a policeman for riding on the pavement, when I was 10, to go on the road. Road riding and being "BIG" might be the least worst option though. It's a dorky solution** but those foam pool noodles attached sideways behind the rider can be quite effective at maintaining some road presence. I once carried an enormous spirit level sideways on my bike and laughed out load at the wide berth I was given.

    * the grown-ups version of the Me 'N' U2
    ** thus ultimately yet another failing to control drivers

    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. acsimpson
    Member

    The Helios triplet is another option but it comes at a price and would like be outgrown in another few years (170kg total rider weight)

    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. neddie
    Member

    Would absolutely recommend the Helios. We had the tandem, with occasional use of a FollowMe attachment when I needed to take both kids. For short journeys, I’ve even had child #2 sit on the rack

    It’s far better to have (older) kids pedalling so they don’t get cold, and also feel like they’re contributing. Having kids just sit in the bucket of a cargo bike is so passive - no different to driving them really.

    The Helios has been such a massive boon to us, and it’s so flexible in terms of size, our teen kids still use it from time to time and even my wife has been a stoker.

    It just enables you to go out on the more busy roads, when needed, without the “wobble” fears

    Posted 1 month ago #
  8. Greenroofer
    Member

    @Dave I don't think the GSD is oversold: they are brilliant for most families. Your situation is challenging though, as you have two passengers the same age, so there's going to be a short period when, together, they are too heavy for it but they can't really ride alone.

    I was at the other extreme - with an HSD and a four-year age gap between children, there was never a hope of getting them both on it at the same time, but it proved incredibly useful for getting them to things individually. Mini-G, 20 this year and a medical student, is still light enough to go on the back, and is willing to be carted about Edinburgh on it if it suits her social schedule. 'Micro'-G, now 15 and 6ft is too tall and heavy for the back seat of the HSD (55kg max load), which makes me regret not getting a GSD.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  9. LaidBack
    Member

    @Dave Life was easy pre-electric!

    As @neddie and @acsimpson note the Helios was a possibility with the Triplet version that I know you considered pre GSD. Once twins exceeded weight then rebuild as a separable tandem for two adults or use as a patch in for journeys where twins swap bikes when tired = one tandem and solo. Daughter and friend did that a bit on our holiday trips. Twin dynamic night be more complex tho'!
    E version available and cargo racks too.

    On long tail models the Bike 43 offers long rack (for 3 = 43) but wasn't persuaded to stock.

    Bakfiets / UA still offers some future proofing but like all cargo bikes is a passive experience.

    Power wise we are limited as you say. If regs allowed more speed and uphill power then tougher gearing & braking options required. People coming in from hills around city need more servicing etc.
    IntraDrive motor with internal gearing made here is one option and they did fit to a UA for a successful trial.
    Others reckon a large Bafang is best and just accept the fact that any high powered e-cargo bike will use up chains and cassettes - even if 7 speed.
    From sales point of view people prefer the predictable feel of Bosch or Shimano mid drive even if a bit 'weak' or slow.

    Even a low average speed cycle still beats the frustration of poor public transport interchanges. On manual tandem we used to get from old town to Corstorphine way ahead of walking, waiting and busing. Still promote the tandem option at shop but 2025 parents are very e-cargo focused as they have seen other families doing on Terns and UAs.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  10. Dave
    Member

    I always hankered after the Helios triplet... but suspect the length of time between them being old enough to ride it and when they would refuse to be seen on it might not be that long (although IIRC you got quite a long lifespan of tandeming @LaidBack?)

    It's not lost on me that it's a bit of a vicious cycle around these parts: it's very fast and safe to drive, it's either hilly, rough & unlit and/or circuitous to cycle, and public transport takes an age due to a low frequency of limited services.

    I remember looking into getting the bus from Currie to their swim lessons at the top of the bypass and it was awful timewise. If you "sell out" and drive you're reducing the viability of the alternatives, but how much road danger or hours of circuitousness do you want to subject your family life to otherwise?

    A tricky one. I ended up looking at progress (in Edinburgh) over the ~25 years I've lived here vs there being less than 10 years left before the kids leave home, and I just had to decide to stop worrying about it. The kids will be halfway flit before the council finishes removing SfP infra...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  11. Greenroofer
    Member

    @Dave - do not underestimate the power of Dad's free taxi to overcome a reluctance to be seen on the back of a bike. Mini-G is extremely willing to tolerate being collected by bike on a door-to-door service* rather than having to wait for a bus or pay for a taxi, and she stops being a teenager this year.

    *I refuse to wait round the corner and or not drop her off at the door...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  12. LaidBack
    Member

    Daughter started on her own bike once at Gillespies but used to hide it as didn't think it was cool. Her friends actually did like cycling away from the school peer pressure.
    We used tandem and solos so she could take a friend to France on one of our train ferry adventures when they were 15. They ran off one evening on it to go on a cafe visit to St Malo(!)

    I would say that tandeming is of course a joint activity so ideally you would own two Helios tandems for those longer cycling trips ;-)
    Then you have two competing teams and once they grow they can use together. (!)
    Actually doing a tandem and solo mix works well for city trips. Then you only have one wobbly bike to worry about and they can tuck in behind you and stoker.

    @Arobcomp has bought a Tern Orox for his adventure trips. Big Bosch model but rack is not bigger.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  13. neddie
    Member

    from Currie to their swim lessons at the top of the bypass

    A classic example of induced (driving) demand.

    If driving was not an option, then swim lessons at Balerno High School would be booked instead. This would make an approx one mile journey via WoL path or the backstreets of Currie, which could be walked or cycled. People without cars work around the various timings of kids activities so that the activies can be local (or less preferably on a public-transport route), instead of booking based on other factors

    Cars cause people to modify their lifestyles, creating ever longer journeys - cars create distances for all, but shrink them for only a few.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  14. neddie
    Member

    Our kid occasionally has to go to swim meets in Glenrothes, very early on Sunday mornings when there is no public transport.

    Instead of just hiring a car and accepting that, we complain to the swim club that the event is not inclusive...

    Would that complaint have happened had we owned a car?

    I will also boycott any paid events that aren't accessible by public transport, example: Alloa Half Marathon, which they moved to a very early time, to avoid making a driver mad

    Posted 1 month ago #
  15. Dave
    Member

    Your point about the lessons is good, there isn't remotely the capacity for Balerno to deliver all the swimming lessons, but then again the capacity isn't there /because/ it's straightforward to spread the load across different providers (geographically). If for some reason you couldn't do this there would maybe be a larger number of (larger?) municipal pools.

    You can say the same about shops, there is no substantial supermarket closer than Hermiston Gait. If we allow that deliveries are still driving, then either way the ability to drive to shops causes (or allows?) the poor geographical spread of shops. For us in particular as the kids have milk allergy, you can't even shop in scotmid if you don't care about the higher prices.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    All 3 of my progeny were taught to swim by Hilary The Magnificent at Balerno but she maybe retired? Old Currie High has a dinky pool the also magnificent former HT Eric The Melvin and The Bluenotes used to swim in it every lunchtime with anyone else who had wandered in. Not sure if the new Currie High will have a pool, they are not cheap……

    Posted 1 month ago #
  17. LaidBack
    Member

    Local swimming pools such as Infirmary St were great when we first moved to city centre. But it closed and all lessons went to Commonwealth Pool which would discourage a few. Even though a minute distance in suburban terms.

    Daughter never considered tandeming much exercise. She hated walking though and not having a car cut down choices! Became keener on bus once at secondary.

    Cycling up to Hillend Ski Centre twice in one day was the kind of thing e-cargo would have made easier though!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  18. Greenroofer
    Member

    GCN, where Si is getting increasingly activist in his videos, has just published this video, which is extremely relevant!

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos

    Posted 1 month ago #

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