It looks like they have started widening the pavement Here
Between Dalmeny and the A90 slip, just South of the entrance to Dalmeny house. From what I saw on Thursday, it's going to make things a bit hairy for cyclists if you stay on the road (especially going up hill). It is going to get very narrow on the road at the top of the hill.
They were supposed to be starting work on the narrow bit up the side of the A90, maybe the got the location wrong.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Pavement Widening B924. Dalmeny to A90
(43 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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It would certainly improve things going downhill if you stick on the shared pavement, but as ever that good is balanced with bad - as you rightly say going uphill it could make things particularly unpleasant.
Definitely should be concentrating on the bit alongside the A90 as a priority rather than here!
Posted 13 years ago # -
How long has the pavement on the downhill side been shared?
Posted 13 years ago # -
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages! (I think)
I can certainly remember riding on that when I lived in Trinity and that was almost 5 years ago.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Ah, ok. I've been down there since then so obviously didn't notice, or chose to use the road.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think it is signposted as part of the cycle network, and there is a monitoring box about halfway down. It's narrow in bits, so I tend to stick to the nice wide (and fast downhill) road.
I can see lots of conflict on this stretch, once this is completed. You can hit 30 easy downhill, and you will not want to be doing that on the pavement with someone struggling up the hill or people out walking.
If you stick to the road you WILL get buzzed by cars and buses, it happens now at the narrow bits.
I don't know what the best solution is here, but you are going to get motorised transport in conflict here, never mind the people on bikes. It will be our fault too.Posted 13 years ago # -
buses
Of course you will, Lothian buses don't head out that way, just the pink-and-purple-perils
Posted 13 years ago # -
Once upon a time didn't buses get diverted down there to sneak past the main road?
"...You can hit 30 easy downhill, and you will not want to be doing that on the pavement with someone struggling up the hill or people out walking..."
If I'm on a shared-use pavement (especially one with the odd kerb and ill-placed sign) I don't go anywhere near thirty, especially when people cycling uphill might want the pavement to give them a bit of car-free wobble-space.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Mibbe it's just me, but I look at that bit on Google streetview and see a large, smooth piece of tarmac. Why on earth would I want to ride on the pavement?
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Why on earth would I want to ride on the pavement?"
Contra-flow uphill.
Keep out of the way of the buses downhill. (Though most people should be able to do that by going fast enough.
HOWEVER this is a key part of the world class cycling city's MAJOR commute/tourist route from the Capital to Fife, so it will be delivered to a very high standard taking account of the needs of pedestrians (and those waiting at the bus stop) plus (to a lesser extent of course) other road users...
UPDATE
Just looked at the Google link. Had assumed this was the bit by Cramond Brig.
STILL
Most of above applies!
Posted 13 years ago # -
I don't use this stretch, as I'm told the section of cycle path which runs on the path along the A90 is very bumpy with tree roots. Anyone riden along here recently who can confirm or deny?
Instead I ride south towards Kirkliston and turn off left towards Queen Elizebeth yards and then south to Burnshot Road and along to Craigiehall ro join the A90 there. Its darker (in Winter) but a lot quieter. Also the only hill is going home up Standingstane Road.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yeah there are some really 'interesting' tree roots on the hill section, one of which would put most sleeping policemen to shame! Was looking forward to seeing how the 'bent faired on them...
That whole bit is quite an adrenaline rush coming down (toward S Queensferry) with narrow sections bordered with stone walls, and off camber ramps as you get closer to the traffic.
Posted 13 years ago # -
What a stupid idea. In all the years I was commuting this route I saw *nobody* riding on the pavement. The silly cut out gutter section was also an invitation for an accident (although to be fair, a few people did at least use that).
They've got it all wrong as usual. People who don't want to mix with cars can just go through the estate, which is deserted. Nobody who rides the route more than once in their life will do it on the pavement.
I'd be really interested to know what proportion of cyclists use each. Bit late now though, since they've started work.
How much do you want to bet that there's still a Schumacherly tight manouvre to get off the road at 35mph onto the pavement at the bus stop (heading down to the corner which is needlessly blind because of vegetation?)
There again, the sensible solution would have been to take cyclists down on the road (there's even a bus lane!) and build a smooth ramp onto the path just at the A90, not 400 yards before it.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Sorry Dave, but when we rode out to S Queensferry a few times my other half was nervous enough of the 60mph traffic that the pavement was the only option. On my own I'd probably stick to the road, but with a nervous/inexperienced cyclist they'll go for the pavement every time.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yes, if it was the only option I might agree.
But why bother at all when you can ride through the idyllic estate a few hundred yards to the north?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1780935
Surely you wouldn't choose riding 3 feet from the mercy of oncoming 70mph traffic for fun?
This is where the route breaks down, which is what I was trying to say. If you're out to ride for fun, since there's a large and well-maintained route already, why make it worse for the people who make up the overwhelming majority of users (who are on the road?)
Of course, it's not politic. We are supposed to be grateful for anything which encourages this sort of thing.
Posted 13 years ago # -
5-6 years ago when we were riding it I'm not sure cycling through the estate was allowed - is it not more of a detour? (I don't know the route through the estate at all - just that at one point there was apparently a wee man in a boat (or a man in a wee boat) who would row you across at Cramond, but he was gone by then).
Posted 13 years ago # -
I expect people don't go through the estate as it's not marked with a big purple line on the Spokes map.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The distance would be more germane in this situation - the ride out to S Queensferry and back from Trinity was enough to have Mel needing a lie down as it was without tagging on extra miles... ;)
That said, she did manage Pedal for Scotland twice, so I'm not sure how much was playing for sympathy.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It is longer through the estate, for sure. If it wasn't then commuters would also choose to ride it (though to be fair, some do).
That's why it's such a mystery IMO. I'd say riding through the estate is the highlight of the ride (including stopping at South Queensferry), whereas riding the skankfest along the A90 is the worst bit of it.
Improving the compulsory section, fair enough as everybody has to use it. But widening the bit that, what, 1:100 cyclists use at the direct expense of the other 99%, not such a big fan.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I presume the estate owners don't want to be seen as a decent cycle route alternative and so it's not advertised? Just never looked an option when we were riding out that way, so not so much a matter of 'choosing' the skankfest, as thinking there was no other way (and the rest of the ride was worth putting up with that short section).
Posted 13 years ago # -
Dave you have the best crash videos :D
Last time I rode through the estate it was a bit of a cyclocross mission.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I measured it and it adds a little over half a mile to the trip, by the way. At 10mph that's three minutes - even at 6mph it's only five minutes.
Perhaps one for a CCE summer ride, if we get more ambitious than Crammond?
PS. You can also ride all the way along the coast instead of back to the junction we're discussing in the topic - if you do this, it slashes the amount of climbing on the route although it's not paved so is more of a canal towpath style experience. Managed on the lowracer with slick tyres but not relaxing, sort of terrain ;-)
Edited to add - this is probably what ruggtomcat did, by the sounds of it. The estate route we're talking about is completely paved, and at a "better than Edinburgh road" standard (not that that's hard!)
Posted 13 years ago # -
hmmm, going to check that out next time I'm heading that way.
On the coast road, I remember the time we were riding out there and it was mooted that the coast path was going to be improved, and cycles were going to be allowed. It was that kind of thing that made it seem like cycles weren't allowed at that time. D'oh!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Ahhh yeah, we did it from S Queesferry to Crammond, some very cobbley sections. I thought we were doing well on CX bikes until we met someone on a skinny-tyred racer coming the other way, a fairly grim expression on his face.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Well, pre-Land Reform I guess all sorts of things were purportedly dodgy. Everybody seems to have caught up now except City of Edinburgh Council and Friends of the Meadows ;-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
I've ridden all the routes and taken intrepid visitors out that way via the Dalmeny estate.
The direct routes main downfall was (still is) the narrow path hemmed in by an ancient wall and the A90. Tree routes can send a low racer airborne... best to be clipped in.
I ride the roads out that way as much as I can. In fact I've never even noticed that the pavement at the estate had a bicycle sign on it till now.
I actually prefer the Kirkliston and turn left option as that's a nice road with new surface. Some fast traffic but never had a problem on most of it. Coming into Quensferry you can use the broad off road route through the trees that ends in the Scotmid car park (almost good).
As usual cycleways are put in where there is deemed to be space. Then all cyclists get the blame for narrowing the highway and anyone who doesn't use it can expect grief from some drivers. These drivers have no idea what bike paths are like outwith the bits that 'inconvenience' them. They're the ones who moan about cyclists going over 'Toucan' pedestrian crossings.
Posted 13 years ago # -
That road is pretty much the closest I have come to instant death while riding my bike. Nothing to do with bike lanes or pavements, more just terrible driving from a boy racer - just about where the car can be seen in the distance on the Google streetview linked in scotti's original post, I was heading down the hill towards Dalmeny estate at a reasonable 20-odd mph and watched in increasing horror as said boy racer chose to overtake at 60mph plus and stay in my carriageway for a considerable distance further than necessary. Must have missed me by about 2 metres...
Anyway, I would heartily recommend riding through Dalmeny Estate. Some nice training roads (in very good nick) for those so inclined: some short, sharp climbs and a long drag climb as well.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I did the A90 cyclepath section on the tourer with 28mm Conti 4Seasons and don't recall the tree roots being a problem. Might be an issue if I was on the "fast" bike though.
I was through Dalmeny estate on Sunday, but following the coastal path. It is very, very muddy at the moment and at some points the mud is mixed with sand. It forms a very effective grinding paste.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I find the tree roots to be a problem but an even bigger problem is that the path is so narrow here that it is not possible for two people to pass one another. Totally unfit for purpose.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Min it is not possible for two people to pass one another. Totally unfit for purpose.
That's true - head on crash risk as shown by Dave. Fact is that almost all cycleways are designed for infrequent (marginal) use.
If we had the levels of some other countries, routes like NCN1 couldn't cope. I haven't often met someone going other way as I think people take the other variants. Plus an unattractive route helps to stifle demand.
Druidh I was through Dalmeny estate on Sunday, but following the coastal path. It is very, very muddy at the moment and at some points the mud is mixed with sand.
The main NCN signed route takes you away from that. I noticed there was a sign missing last time I took it.Posted 13 years ago #
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