CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Check your carbon bits!

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  1. Smudge
    Member

    Bit of a bad cycling day today, a friend stopped by the office on his roadbike, then 5 minutes after leaving was brought back by a concerned (but very nice and helpful!)van driver.
    As I'm the workplace first aider I got to deal with him and as the workplace cyclist(!) also his bike.. turns out he'd started to turn at a junction only to have his carbon steerer tube snap causing him to faceplant in front of the van. More than a little bit scary! He seems essentially ok, (though a scraped face and very shaken, and I sent him to hospital to get his wrist x-rayed) but it's a sober reminder that load bearing carbon has a finite life when exposed to the delightful road surfaces we ride on :-/

    To further improve my day I got a flat on the way home... I am now attempting to avoid sharp/dangerous things until the third bit of luck has passed!!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. Smudge
    Member

    http://www.bustedcarbon.com/

    I could really go off carbon parts.. (shudder)

    Now eyeing my carbon seatpost nervously! lol

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. steveo
    Member

    I had a similar thought a few months ago and got rid of my carbon seat post, though my forks match my bike and they're too pretty to get rid off....

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. splitshift
    Member

    few years ago, I bent my solid steel front forks,replaced, greased and tightened correctly ?
    Travelling new trails at David Marshal Lodge at high speed fork upper tube failed, overtightened or something had cut through tube, endover into scenery,much uncaring laughter from mates, long drag home.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    When carbon "goes" it "goes".

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    Steel is real.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "When carbon "goes" it "goes". "

    The phrase "not fit for purpose" comes to mind.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    depends what the purpose is though. For road bike components, designed and manufactured with light weight in mind over durability, I wouldn't personally say the sort of pounding a bike can take commuting was the purpose they had in mind. Others may disagree...

    My road bike has a carbon seat post and fork. They are fit for purpose in that they are light weight but soak up vibration better than aluminium would. Their purpose is to be lighter and more comfortable than aluminium and cheaper than Ti!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. wee folding bike
    Member

    I remember watching an F1 car on Top Gear and one of the things they said was that the perfect F1 car should fall apart after it crossed the line. The idea is that everything should be just good enough to do that, if it lasts longer then it wasn't trying hard enough.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. Dave
    Member

    The only fork I've ever had fail was steel. Make of that what you will!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. thebikechain
    Member

    There is so much mis information about carbon.

    It is no worse or weak than metal. In most new products the carbon versions are lighter and stronger than the metal alternative so much so that the Santa Cruz blur lt frame is the strongest frame they have made. It's carbon.

    Easton carbon bars are warrantied longer than alloy as they are so strong.

    The bike industry is moving towards it so much it will be very hard to buy anything not carbon in a few years time.

    From experience of what we see in the workshop alloy can be a lot worse when it breaks. It really really goes when it goes.

    Personally I wouldn't consider anything but carbon now for my mtb. It's ace.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. thebikechain
    Member

    Probably worth adding that there are good and bad examples of all materials used.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. druidh
    Member

    Not all carbon is created equal. It's a simple enough job to make carbon strong if that's the #1 priority.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The bike industry is moving towards it so much it will be very hard to buy anything not carbon in a few years time

    Awesome! Look forward to my carbon tyres and shorts.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. PS
    Member

    Awesome! Look forward to my carbon tyres and shorts.

    Sleek! Where do they fit on the "Dress Code" thread?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Sleek! Where do they fit on the "Dress Code" thread?

    under "painful"

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. ruggtomcat
    Member

    another good reasn to shave the leggies. Carbon shorts could be pretty aero tho...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. Smudge
    Member

    Hmmm, it's well and good saying that race bikes are fit for purpose if they fall apart once they cross the line (and for the record I think it was Colin Chapman who came out with that long long before top gear ;-)), however most "race" bikes are not kept in perfect conditions and only used for a seasons racing before being replaced, they are used for training, commuting and all sorts of other uses, and if the bike, or parts of it is/are likely to have a catastrophic failure then imho they are not fit for purpose, not unless it's going to be sold with a time/mileage limit after which the manufacturer says it cannot be trusted.

    I know carbon *can* be built strong enough, but it's always a trade off between strength and weight, even when the materiel is very light, magazine reviewers judge on grammes regardless of whether it actually matters to most riders and that affects sales..

    What concerns me is the number of really scary failures a quick websearch reveals, I cannot believe that all those riders were misusing their bikes, and given the state of the average british road, what counts as isusing anyway? Anecdotal (and therefore unreliable) evidence suggests that a number of manufacturers are erring on the side of too light/weak, and that risks them, and carbon parts by association being tarred with the same brush that Mr Chapman used to suffer, namely that they are prepared to put light weight/speed before the safety of the driver/rider.
    I appreciate that the majority are fine, and that some weight weenies are their own worst enemies, but it is nonetheless a concern. Whilst alloy can, and sometimes does fail catastrophically, google "alloy steerer failure" and the first page of results are 90% about carbon failures, there is a problem, and whether it's parts or users it's a problem that is injuring people :-/

    (and I suspect carbon shorts could chafe, mind you, probably more flattering than lycra ;-))

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Smudge - everything I read in "road" cycling magazines bangs on about how light components are. I don't recall ever reading one where they test the things to destruction and see at what expense that lightness comes at!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  20. Smudge
    Member

    Indeed, and bikes have improved enormously over recent years, I just wonder if some of them are getting just a little *too* light for road use, or maybe I'm just getting old and cautious lol

    Destruction testing would be interesting, but I suspect unpopular with some of the providers of kit for test(!) mind you, it is done in the motorcycling press (eg ride magazine) when testing protective clothing, so it's possible if the will is there.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  21. druidh
    Member

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    The only component I've ever had break on me while riding was an aluminium seatpost. Very unpleasant as the big sharp. sticky-out end that was left missed my gonads by a few centimetres. Trust me - I could easily spend the next 48 hours putting up images of broken steel and aluminium components.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  22. druidh
    Member

    Here's a set of Pace RC31 carbon forks which have snapped - at the alloy steerer :-)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  23. recombodna
    Member

    I've had a steel mountain bike stem break on me years ago. Luckily I was going slowly uphill ay the time.

    Not sure what that niner video is trying prove......the guy says they don't recommend riding the fork after that much damage.. OK they don't catastrophically fail but neither do the steel forks.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  24. Smudge
    Member

    Druidh, I take your point, when I rebuilt my (alloy framed) Giant OCR one of the first things I did was inspect the alloy frame closely for any sign of flex/cracking/damage.

    The niner video is a bit bizarre, of course neither of them catastrophocally fail, they're not under any load!!

    I seem to have come over all "anti" carbon here, that's not my intent, I have (as already mentioned) a carbon seatpost, my roadbike may well get carbon forks, however as I said, some parts appear to be failing, that doesn't mean other materiels don't/wont and it doesn't mean carbon is a bad materiel, I merely point out that maybe we should all keep an eye on our carbon components particularly when subjecting them to Edinburgh roads, partly because it's a relatively extreme use of roadbike components (though nothing I imagine compared to Paris Roubaix (sp?)), and partly because it's the current "wonder" materiel where manufacturers compete to produce the lightest.

    But mainly because it's no fun having to clean blood off your mates and take them to hospitals.

    Or in short, carbon still = light and light = good, but if you have safety critical components made of it then please have a think about their age/use/condition and keep an eye on them. Same as any other materiel in that way...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  25. druidh
    Member

    Same as any other materiel(sic) in that way...

    So, we need a new thread called "Check your bits"??

    (But then, don't we all?)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  26. Smudge
    Member

    Apologies for my spelling lapse, it seems I've been writing too many stores instructions recently lol

    Yes, we should keep a weather eye on any safety critical load bearing parts, I would still maintain however that the reports of alloy failures these days seem to centre on extreme use or indeed misuse (this has not always been the case, some early designs seemed flawed), whereas some carbon failures appear to be without obvious overuse/misuse. Hence my suggestion that we pay a little more attention to these components.
    I'm sure we can agree to disagree however, and I will be delighted to have my suspicions proven groundless and to not hear of any premature failures of either carbon fibre or indeed other materials.

    Safe riding all,
    S

    Posted 13 years ago #

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