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mattseaton: NYPD ticketing cyclists 'speeding' at 20mph in Central Park: http://bit.ly/h6McWU Totally insane. Have they not got some criminals to catch?
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Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/mattseaton/status/50645542656679936
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Ticketed for cycling at 20mph
(21 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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although a bit far removed from our own neck of the woods, do the panel think that 20mph down (up?) MMW is sensible?
Posted 14 years ago # -
Depends on the busy-ness levels. Each year students get less adept at looking when emerging from George Square and there's a lot more cross-traffic there than there used to be since it was just the wall opposite the A&E entrance where PY, Sainsbury and Starbucks now are. If it's quiet I'd probably go up to that with hands over levers, lights blazing and eyes peeled, though most students can be heard from further away than they can be seen and anticipated accordingly. For some reason they're better at looking downhill than uphill when crossing, which wouldn't even make sense if MMW were a normal British road.
Posted 14 years ago # -
do the panel think that 20mph down (up?) MMW
Up is unlikely for most.
Going down I'm often higher but expect to brake. At crossroads beside Sustran sign are giveway markings so you should moderate speed. Got to watch for cyclists veering off right. Plus kids and dogs.
When it's quiet though you can get across Meadows at a fair old rate - although the FOTM would not approve I'm sure.
Posted 14 years ago # -
The cyclist crackdown is just the latest in the long, ongoing war between cyclists and the established powers-that-be in New York. The NYPD has a long, long history of cyclist abuse, ranging from seeding Critical Mass rides with rabble rousers who would act in ways to stimulate the arrest of CM riders; to illegal mass confiscation of bicycles during the G7 (or 8 or 27 or whatever) summit; to simply stepping in front of riders, throwing them off their bikes, and then charging the riders with assault and lying on the police report (the latter incident, luckily caught on video and viralled on YouTube).
Frankly, I would expect nothing better from NYPD cops.
All that said, however, Central Park on a busy day is a bit of a free-for-all, with all types of traffic, from pedo-pedestrians to Lindsey Lohan Limos wandering through. It is not an environment in which you can safely ride fast, but there are plenty of tri-girls, tri-boys, and Lance wannabees doing just that. So, yeah, a few of them might have deserved a shot across the bow.
Posted 14 years ago # -
20? down MMW? your having a laff! I do 15 tops and ring my bell all the way down.
Posted 14 years ago # -
P.S. I don't do 20 down MMW. I was just trying to think of a parallel in our own back/front garden.
Anyone know the legalities of speed-trapping cyclists? Is it even possible with one of those radar guns? (Urban myths of speeding squirrels jumping infront of speed cameras)
Posted 14 years ago # -
Even on a shared use path there isn't (as far as I'm aware) a prescribed speed limit. The simple, logical reason for this is that bikes are not required to have speedos, and those that do carry speedos are not subject to regular checks on the calibration and so on. In short a cyclist can never actually know exactly how fast he is going.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"I was just trying to think of a parallel in our own back/front garden."
The downhill section of the proper cars-and-everything road which goes over the hill? Does the 10mph limit signed at the entrance gate apply (to motor vehicles) all the way round? I've not seen one for a while but the occasional cycle rider has gone at speeds beyond their braking capacity and had to scrape their feet to stop at the roundabout in time.
Posted 14 years ago # -
On more than one occasion i've resorted to areo braking as well as hauling both anchors as though my life depended on it (it probably did). I often forget just how dodgy my road bike brakes are.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Central Park has great big roads through it, and from skimming chdot's link, it looks like it was on one of these roads that the cyclist was done on. Not really the same deal as doing 20 on MMW.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Here's a link to Seaton's earlier blog about crackdown on cyclists in NY/central park, which explains the context.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Kaputnik - you can't speed trap a cyclist as speed limits do not apply to bikes, only motorised vehicles. Excessive speed could, in certain circumstances, be considered dangerous or inconsiderate/careless cycling which are offences.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@wingpig I hope not, I like doing 40+ down there, its a reward for bashing up the other side. Although having fat disks and the weight distribution to use them makes this prospect a lot safer.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Kaputnik - you can't speed trap a cyclist as speed limits do not apply to bikes, only motorised vehicles.
So is it down to the perception of a police officer to decide if speed was excessive? You could be doing only 15 but that might be judged "excessive".
Posted 14 years ago # -
It would be a judgement call by the police and prosecutors - but you would have to be cycling at a speed which a competent and careful cyclist would know was dagnerous and likely to cause damage or injury to people or property (dangerous cycling) or without due care and attention or consideration for other road users (careless/inconsiderate cycling).
In addition, the evidence of this would have to be such that it would stand up to scrutiny in court.
Only if your high speed was posing a danger to other road users would you be liable to prosecution. If you were cycling safely on a road at or under the posted speed limit for motorised vehicles I cannot see how that could be considered an offence.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I must do 20mph on Middle Meadow Walk (except the crossroads in the middle) - I don't think of it as being particularly dangerous, since the route is segregated.
If you measured the speed of a range of cyclists there, I wager you'd find 20mph was not uncommon at all. Whether this would be a material fact in terms of what "a careful cyclist would know was dangerous and likely to cause damage or injury", I'm not sure - perhaps it would just be held that a great many cyclists are dangerous!
At the end of the day, there are two fundamental differences between cyclists and motorists - first, that when someone is hit by a car there's a good chance they'll die, whereas when hit by a bike there's almost no chance they'll die. But more importantly, cyclists have every imaginable motivation not to crash, because it will invariably hurt them more than it will hurt whoever they hit.
Posted 14 years ago # -
since the route is segregated.
I find that too many pedestrians don't treat the white painted line as if it represents segregations.
I read a childs book once about a school for the unexpected. Its motto was "always expect the unexpected". Sound advice for urban cycling I find.
Posted 14 years ago # -
The police in the case which inspired this thread are now visiting the ticketed cyclists to apologise.
Posted 14 years ago # -
The chap who killed the teenager standing on the cyclepath was fined £4000??
THe segregation on MMW is for cyclists, pedestrians can and do wander all over it
The 6 mph limit on the towpath|? Some runners go much faster than that
Posted 14 years ago # -
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mattseaton: Further instalment from me on the NYC bike lanes battle - plus the NYPD biker ticketing blitz: http://bit.ly/gzx2wh
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Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/mattseaton/status/51274578906984448Posted 14 years ago #
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