Have they changed? I counted less than 10 seconds of green heading East from Dalry
Also the green kicks in later at West Maitland St heading East so my usual slowing down just enough to still be moving when they change has failed.
What the h£ll? less than 10 seconds? And if you miss that you are waiting more than a minute?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Haymarket Lights Timings
(53 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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Clarence it and see if anything happens. I've started sending them issues with light sequences (or bike-detection) and they've not told me to go away yet. Maybe they have a special school-holiday sequence setting though it'd be a weird place for such a thing.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Ten seconds would be a positive luxury heading from Braidburn Terrace across to Greenbank Crescent; you're lucky to get five or six seconds, which results in every cyclist going as soon as the amber lights up, and bumper-to-bumper acceleration of as many cars as possible.
When I did a survey of the lights at the eastern end of West Savile Terrace where it meets Mayfield, the red light phase typically lasted 50-60 seconds, while the green phase ranged from 5 seconds to 18 seconds, dynamically changing to suit the traffic density.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Have they changed?
I did notice that I got through them westbound this morning from the lights going green further up Morrison Street without waiting. That's NEVER happened. Ever.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Those lights were the main reason i switched to coming up Slateford and taking my chances with the Approach Road entrance.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Done, thanks for the idea
Posted 13 years ago # -
taking my chances with the Approach Road entrance.
No kidding! Went past there last Friday on tandem, with child as stoker, following bike with trailer, only to have two vans overtake and swish through onto Approach rd. Terrifying!
Posted 13 years ago # -
@steveo - yes I could happily scoot along West Bryson and join Fountainbridge at Fowler but then I can't get to Canning St without disobeying one way on Morrison St/Dewar Place
Posted 13 years ago # -
West Approach entrance also disliked by pedestrians as far back as 2006.
The east end of Fountainbridge involves at least three red lights (the one at the turn into Semple St goes red just as the one past the end of Ponton St goes green, so heading along there (then Semple/Morrison/Lothian/West Approach/Canning, to be legal) takes ages but quickly converting to pedestrianism to get through the Port Hamilton/Semple St cut-through (after turning left at the new lights opposite the end of the canal) is a wee bit quicker.
Posted 13 years ago # -
West Approach entrance also disliked by pedestrians.
Brilliant!!!!!!!
Posted 13 years ago # -
@spytefear. Yeah its a right pain round there.
@wingpig. I generally just go round on the road, by there I'm amost at the office so it gives me a moment to cool off so i don't look so bad if any one see's me. On the way back i cut through just to avoid having to go down Morrison St and back through Haymarket.
Posted 13 years ago # -
When you look at the options for Dalry to West End/Canning St, you realise how useful a proper cycle lane parallel with the West Approach Road would be.
Dalry Rd > Haymarket > West Maitland St > Shandwick Place; two sets of traffic lights and three or four lanes of road to deal with.
Dundee St > Fountainbridge > Semple St > Lothian Rd > Eastern West Approach Rd; nine or more sets of lights.
Dundee St > Fountainbridge > Port Hamilton path > EICC path (is that one even open at the moment?) > Rutland Square; four sets of lights.
Maybe the direct route is quickest!
Edit: Ah, I think wingpig got there first. Hey ho.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I hate that entrance to the WAR. It's pretty hard to see what's coming behind you and if it's indicating or not. As your'e going uphill and slowed down, there's too much impatience by cars following to try and squeeze past and then onto WAR. I think the cycle lane is completely lethal cutting right across the entrance like that - particularly as cars seem to treat it like an accelerating ramp to get up to speeds that they shouldn't be doing on the WAR.
Like a lot of "cyle lanes" I personally find it safest to ignore it completely and float out into a primary position in the "car lane", where you A/ get a better view, B/ discourage people from squeezing you out and C/ have 2 directions in which to take avoiding action (rather than just being squished into the railings if you take the lane).
Posted 13 years ago # -
EICC path is "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT"-ified at the moment...
Posted 13 years ago # -
"West Approach entrance also disliked by pedestrians.
Brilliant!!!!!!! "
That is good. I've often thought that there should be an official sign with wording along those lines. It would brighten up the highway code if nothing else.
If in the car I tend to indicate right* if I see pedestrians hovering, waiting to cross.
*Just to clarify, if was joining the approach road then I wouldn't indicate right (but I would f***in' indicate left!)
Posted 13 years ago # -
Sleeping police style speed bump at the pedestrian crossing as the traffic enters the on ramp might go some way to solving the on ramp problem, but I agree that having to tape the primary position is just sometimes the only way to stop cars cutting you up. I do it all the time when on the road at a left turn where the majority of the traffic turn left.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I had a look at the Dalry Rd > Haymarket > West Maitland St junction earlier. Spytfyre is absolutely right: the timing for the green light phase seems ridiculously short for the traffic density. At the red light was a cyclist with little sense of self-preservation, then two double-decker buses, then me. The lights changed to back amber as I crossed the white line.
EICC path is "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT"-ified at the moment.
That didn't seem to stop a couple of cyclists I saw. To their credit, I suppose, they were riding at walking pace.
I also timed the Braidburn Terr > Greenbank Cres green phase this evening, and it lasted 8 seconds. I'll time the red phase tomorrow.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Spytfyre is absolutely right"
Ah bless ya Arellcat
I thought about nipping home via a different route and as the WAR is now 30MPH from the cinema right into town now I figured that it would be OK now to cycle to the new flats and up their shiny narrow cycle/wheelchair ramp.
WRONG
The stretch of WAR from the Sheraton car park entrance under the bridge to the Morrison St junction (and the path I wanted) is still No Peds or Cycles. Why is this when it is a 30MPH road? I can understand no peds as there is no path but surely if ttraffic is obeying the 30MPH limit (ha ha sarcasm ha) it would be fine?Posted 13 years ago # -
I think when people pass the no peds/horses/cycles signs a little bit of their brain tells them "MOTORWAY!", resulting in huge acceleration noises when you're sitting waiting for the Canning St lights.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Light timings must definitely have changed - it actually makes things easier heading westbound in the morning, but I assume at the expense of those heading eastbound.
Posted 13 years ago # -
When I'm going to Haymarket my journey begins/ends at the lights at the end of Dalry Road. I'd say that at least nine times out of 10 the lights are at red when I arrive.
It makes life easy when wheeling a bike from Haymarket and, crossing the road then heading SW.Posted 13 years ago # -
That's a point. Has the change possibly been made with pedestrians (as well as westbound traffic) somewhere in mind?
Posted 13 years ago # -
@ Wingpig,
This is most probably the reason. I expect they did traffic surveys and looked at the volume of traffic heading in each direction. Add to this the possibility that traffic heading into town is 'unwanted' and people exiting Haymarket train st., heading for the west end?
Posted 13 years ago # -
The muppets off the train cross at the red man anyway, giving them more green man is pointless
Posted 13 years ago # -
As early as the development of the Pelican crossing there were doubts about the legality of enforcing pedestrian crossing only on a green man, specifically the legal dubiety of a wait signal; the law had already been trialled in the London borough experiments of 1962 and the Controlled Traffic Area with fines for crossing the road at any non-designated point, or for even stepping over the kerbside red lines, within the curfew period. But traffic segregation was all the rage back then.
So unless the law has changed since, you can cross on a red man if you like, but you might get hurt if a vehicle presumes right of way.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"The muppets off the train cross at the red man anyway"
Calling me a muppet?
Posted 13 years ago # -
I know I've said it before, but I just don't understand what the problem is with the entrance to the WAR in Dundee St. Indicate early, pull over OUT of the red paintwork and INTO the main carraigeway and no one can squeeze past you. I've been using this route a lot more frequently since they closed off the Shandwick Pl/Queensferry St junction and never had the slightest problem.
I tried the Haymarket option again this morning and the lights at the end of West Maitland Street seemed to come on a few seconds earlier than they used to. Pretty much perfect now as previously I had to sprint away from the Dalry Rd lights, then slow down in the W Maitland St cycle lane to catch the lights changing as I approached. Now I can just wheech through at a decent speed.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Druidh, I think you answered your own question about WAR entrance when you said "I don't understand what the problem is" followed by explaining that it's perfectly alright and safe if you completely avoid the bike lane! :)
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's just a really sloppily designed entrance, because drivers can turn off by taking no action. Like roundabouts with high-speed flared entrances, this is inevitably a bad idea in terms of safety (although great for maximising car speed/throughput).
Posted 13 years ago # -
"it's perfectly alright and safe if you completely avoid the bike lane!"
I think that's mostly true, but, not much consolation to many people who expect to be able to use the red bit 'safely'.
I don't think I have ever been there at rush hour so have not had to deal with a stream(?) of cars turning left.
When the WAR was first opened there was no bike lane and a lot of complaints by cyclists (and there weren't nearly as many then!)
The council (I think it must have been Lothian Region) looked at various options and came up with a 'compromise solution'. This did improve things.
Perhaps now that a lot more people commute by bike, and some motorists are as uncaring as ever, it's time to look at this again. If Edinburgh was World Class Cycling City...
Posted 13 years ago #
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