CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

fixable-uppable?

(10 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by wingpig
  • Latest reply from crowriver
  • This topic is not resolved
  • poll: Are twenty-odd-year-old 531 frames...
    too much faff to re-fit these days unless you have a box of suitable parts and your own workshop? : (0 votes)
    worth a lot of money to the right person on the right internet auction site? : (0 votes)
    worth keeping as the modern equivalent frame would cost loads? : (2 votes)
    100 %
    worth keeping for sentimental reasons? : (0 votes)
    worth keeping because 'repairing an old bike' isn't seen as 'buying ANOTHER bike'? : (0 votes)

  1. wingpig
    Member

    I've got this old frameset sitting around in the loft...

    It's been unused for 6½ years since I slid on a patch of diesel going downhill round the corner on Bank Street. Both mechs were bent out of action (though I've no idea how, as I slid out to the right), the BB and headset went all stiff and clicky and my chin needed a few stitches. Considering the amount of damaged components and that such things might be slightly less likely to happen if I didn't have to take a hand off the bars to change gear I decided not to bother trying to get it fixed and bought my current bike a few months later.

    Since being retired, it's been kept out of the rain but not out of the damp or the cold (or out of reach of spiders). The BB, headset and seat pin have remained in place and I only managed to remove the (quilled) handlebars a year or two ago. When in use it was often exposed to the rain, having to be chained up to railings outside lecture theatres for a few years as well as generally pedalled-about for three or four years in Lincolnshire and eleven or twelve years up here. It had had a few dabs of brown Hammerite applied to particularly badly de-painted areas like the chainstay but is otherwise unrepaired since it left the shop sometime early in the 1990s.

    Though the headset and BB now spin freely with no grinding or stiffness I'd expect them to need some attention. The BB might have been re-bearinged by the local garage at some point in the first few years after I acquired it. When I tried to replace the brakes I discovered that the rear side of the front fork wasn't wide enough for modern recessed brake bolts, requiring a set of old and waggly huge-looking single-pivot calipers from the back of a cupboard in EBC to have to do for the next few years. I forgot to take my LIDL digital caliper up to the loft so wasn't able (the ladders creak and are right outside the just-put-down-to-sleep wean's room) to measure anything but the approximate width of the BB shell:

    When I've finished using it to dish and true my homebuild wheel (the rear dropouts aren't 130mm but had a 130mm hub between them for at least four years), I shall be pondering the following questions, for which any guidance or tips would be gratefully received...

    • Despite being 531, is it likely to be made of rust inside?
    • Am I likely to be far better off just buying a much newer frameset of similar material but to which modern components will easily fit?
    • If the headset is knackered, can new headsets be put on old forks (nice and springy and which have handy lugs for proper mudguards or a front rack)? Will the likely size of the head tube mean I'll be stuck with quills?
    • Is the width of the BB suitable for modern sealed-unit replacements?
    • Do places which repaint/renovate old frames also do things like drill out brake bosses so that modern dual-pivots can be fitted?
    • As I have no BB or headset tools, is it worth (after cleaning it up to not be frowned at too much) handing it in somewhere for these bits to be done by people who a: know what they're doing and b: have the gear to do what they know what to do with with?

    Thanks in anticipation...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. recombodna
    Member

    Quills in my opinion are the best!!! The brake bosses are an easy job just drill out the back of the fork with an 8mm bit. The width of the bottom bracket should be fine for a sealed unit. Just measure the old axle and order the correct size. Looks like a nice old 531 frame should be solid enough. Get it powder coated and buy some shiny bits and it'll be a good 'un. .......that's my 2p's worth. I just did an old puch 531 and ilove it. re cycle it!!!!!!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin


    Despite being 531, is it likely to be made of rust inside?

    Unlikely

    Am I likely to be far better off just buying a much newer frameset of similar material but to which modern components will easily fit?

    No

    Most things still fit.

    You'll probably want something like this -

    - which are not easy to find...

    If the headset is knackered, can new headsets be put on old forks (nice and springy and which have handy lugs for proper mudguards or a front rack)? Will the likely size of the head tube mean I'll be stuck with quills?

    Yes, but - you might need the Kaptunik DIY solution.

    V. Nice forks.

    What's wrong with a quill??

    Is the width of the BB suitable for modern sealed-unit replacements?

    Looks like normal 68mm BB

    Do places which repaint/renovate old frames also do things like drill out brake bosses so that modern dual-pivots can be fitted?

    Yes but as recombodna says "just drill out the back of the fork with an 8mm bit"

    As I have no BB or headset tools, is it worth (after cleaning it up to not be frowned at too much) handing it in somewhere for these bits to be done by people who a: know what they're doing and b: have the gear to do what they know what to do with with?

    That depends - if you want DIY go to Bike Station Sat or Wed eve.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. wingpig
    Member

    Rightyho. Took me a moment to determine what the hard-to find thing was. I'll see if the existing one is re-usable with a fresh bolt.

    Does the drilling-out of the brake-holes take place before or after repainting?
    Is repainting vital? Whilst it protects the frame from the elements, looking shabby protects the entire bike from criminal elements.

    Nowt against quills (and easy height-tweaking was always handy) except that I presume they're likely to be slightly harder to find stuff for?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    Took me a moment to determine what the hard-to find thing was. I'll see if the existing one is re-usable with a fresh bolt.

    I thought you didn't want to have downtube levers. That's the cable stop to replace them, so you can have some sort of levers on your bars.

    Does the drilling-out of the brake-holes take place before or after repainting?

    Before better.

    Is repainting vital?

    No - best to touch up bare/rusty bits. But clean/sand/spray gives you a 'new' bike.

    looking shabby protects the entire bike from criminal elements

    Some people say drop bars do too...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. wingpig
    Member

    Oh aye. Forgot they were two different things.
    The original bars weren't badly bent and are possibly re-usable. I'm concerned that the current cache of fixies and CX will reduce the unfashionableness of the drop-bar look.
    Is the correct repainting-protocol to remove fork from frame before dropping-off?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "Is the correct repainting-protocol to remove fork from frame before dropping-off?"

    And all the other bits you don't want blasted/painted.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Wingpig I recently finished a similar rebuild job on a 531 frame that Mr Dot sold/swapped me.

    I had it stripped and painted by Henderson's metal work over at Restalrig who made a very good job of it. It costs £60 to get a bike done plus £10 for the paint (if they don't already have the colour you want in stock). It took about a week to get it back. They said that the primer helps protect the steel also, advised against powder coating a steel frame, as moisture can begin to get inbetween the coat and the steel over time leading to hidden rusting. They will be able to do any drilling of holes for you also I think and will tap out the bosses etc. after painting if you want (I didn't for the gear hanger as I wasn't going to use it)

    I had bicycleworks fit the bottom bracket for a few quid in about 20 minutes.

    I fitted the headset myself using the crown race tool and headset press (proper Parktool one) at the bikestation (£4 an hour, took about 30 minutes). As I explained on another thread, head tube was weird size so needed some shimming with Carlsberg tin (other beers are available) to get it fitted. The bicycleworks couldn't / wouldn't fit it for this reason (although off the record did advise this as a likely solution), but they kindly measured with the digital calipers and faced the fork drown for me for free.

    I got a new old stock Cinelli quill stem for peanuts that I found hidden under a pile of dust in veloecosse. There are plenty for a few pounds at thebikestation or they are widely available on fleabay etc. For £12-14 you can get an adapter for the 1" steerer so you can use a 1 1/8" ahead stem. I thought about doing this to re-use my existing old stem, then realised it would make the lovely old frame look wrong! More beer can was (and still is) required to clamp the bars on, but that's my own fault for not measuring anything before hand.

    I'm concerned that the current cache of fixies and CX will reduce the unfashionableness of the drop-bar look.

    There's a wide variety of drop-bar styles to choose from. Or you could fit some awesome-looking moustache bars like anth has or bizarre-looking dropped bullhorns like I have. Again I had a rake about and there's a wide range of old riser and flat and dropped bars at thebikestation.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Oh and P.S. you forgot the option "worth fixing up because it's a great frame"!

    P.P.S. my frame I worked out (from cereal number) as originating in Worksop, 1977.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    If you want 'vintage' parts for your bike, eg. the brake calipers, you could try the parts box at the Bike Station or Eastside Bikes, they may have something as they strip a lot of old frames down. Indeed if you don't want to fit a BB/headset yourself, they'll do a good job, and they are not expensive.

    Posted 13 years ago #

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