CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

length of old tram line never dug up???

(44 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by gembo
  • Latest reply from wee folding bike

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  1. wee folding bike
    Member

    I've read a thesis that part of the problem with UK trains was the Luftwaffe's failure to bomb it into the ground.

    By the end of WWII it was mostly still in place and still running steam trains. Elsewhere in Europe rebuilding allowed electrification. I can't find a mention on the web but the information beside Evening Star in York says something about them expecting it would run until '75.

    I like steam trains just fine but I'm also quite annoyed that I didn't manage to see the Deltic in Striling a couple of years ago.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    Great quote at the end:

    "Once you're in a city or a built environment, it all seems like a fait accompli, it seems as if you can't change it, that cities are the way they are, and have always been that way, or this is the way our life is conducted. And the truth is, these big infrastructure projects are not forever; they're constantly being built and changed and revamped, and made to work in ways that nobody dreamed they ever would need to be worked. That was what was so moving to me, thinking about this rail system and that whole communities were formed and shaped and grew up around rail lines and streetcar systems and they are now entirely gone. And it's not just that the system's gone, and that you're riding a different mode of transit, but it's the way that rail lines and streetcars and public transit creates civic life in a city that is very important, and struck me as an incredible loss.

    I think our automobile culture has a lot of interesting and fun and wild kind of aspects to it, but civic life is certainly not among them."

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "I'll wear her down and she'll get a bike one day."

    I expect she'll have been brought up to think that this -


    is cheap/value for money/desirable/necessary etc.

    (and of course that price is without insurance, petrol etc...)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    Now that I come to think of it, wasn't the electricity network also owned by the state back then? As were most of the power stations and the coal industry which supplied the fuel for most of them.

    Although the government held stakes in many UK oil producing companies (eg. Burmah Oil and subsidiary BP), they were still private sector concerns, with shares listed on the stock exchange. One can see how the oil sector would want to grow its market share against the then still dominant coal sector. There are still oil fired power stations around dating from the 1960s, which must have seemed feasible when oil was still cheap.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. wee folding bike
    Member

    It didn't work for Inverkip.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverkip_power_station

    The chimney was useful if you were sailing.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Now that I come to think of it, wasn't the electricity network also owned by the state back then? As were most of the power stations and the coal industry which supplied the fuel for most of them.

    Electricity generation and local distribution was almost entirely municipally and industrially owned and run at various levels. The North of Scotland Hydro Board was a bit of an exception being a nationalised electicity generation and distribution board for northern Scotland. National distribution was by the Central Electricity Board (fore-runner of the National Grid)

    With the excention of the Hydro, it was nationalised in 1948 into regional generation, supply and distribution boards under the British Electricity Authority.

    There was re-organisation in 1954 with the Hydro being formally incorporated into the nationalised sructure, and the South West and South East Scottish boards combined into the South of Scotland Electricity Board (SSEB. You can still see those letters on old bits of electricity infrastructure). The BEA dissapeared at this time and was replaced by the Central Electricity Authority (CEA.)

    It was reogranised again in 1957 with generation in England and Wales being combined into the Central Electricity Generation Board (CEGB) under the Electricity Council (strategy / policy / governance body). Local supply and distribution in England and Wales was by area boards. In Scotland, it remained integrated with the North (Hydro) and South boards doing the generation, supply and distribution. The CEGB ran the National Grid.

    This structure lasted almost 40 years until the CEGB was broken up and sold off in bits and pieces right throughout the 1990s. The North of Scotland Hydro became Scottish Hydro Electric (now part of SSE after merging with the former Southern Board) and SSEB became Scottish Power, who took over the Merseyside and Wales Board (MANWEB) and are now owned by the Spanish. SSEB didn't get to keep its nuclear plants. Perhaps they weren't trusted.

    In a while somebody will get bored of the current set up and we'll have another one.

    Coal was nationalised from 1947 for 40 years as the National Coal Board, then becoming the British Coal Corporation in 1987 in the run-up to privatisation. Its limited remains were sold off. The state-owned bit that remains is a quango called The Coal Authority that deals with subsidence and old mine shafts and clearing up spoil heaps and that sort of thing.

    On the topic of oil and electricity, SSEB built an enormous oil-fired power station at Inverkip. The chimney is the tallest free-standing structure in Scotland. It started being built in the early 70s and the oil crisis intervened, meaning when it was complete it was too expensive to run, so 2/3 of its units were promptly mothballed. It only ever got to run as intended during the Miners Strike in 1984, after which it spent another 20 or so years in strategic reserve. I think they're taking it apart now.

    The little power station at Methil was designed to run off the washings of the Fife coal field. It lost its source of fuel when that closed down in the mid 80s and after that I think it existed on bits of reclaimed bings until it too was mothballed and - about a month ago - demolished.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "Electricity generation and local distribution was almost entirely municipally and industrially owned"

    And it wasn't just coal -

    http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/letters/8887029.Water_has_the_power_to_play_a_vital_role

    Anyone ever calculated the electicity potential of the Water of Leith??

    There used to be about 80 mills for a variety of industrial processes.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @kaputnik: I didn't know the Methil power station had been demolished. It was a prominent landmark from the Leven bus station. The Kirkcaldy bus used to arrive just as the hourly 95 to St Andrews was leaving. Why they didn't make it a connecting service I have no idea. I used to sit for an hour in the little pub in the High Street or read about restoring MGBs in the library.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    God, I sound like a right old fart.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. steveo
    Member

    Just in case any one is interested Coal, Natural gas and Nuclear provide nearly exactly 90% of the UK's electrical power. Either Wind or Hydro provides almost double the power of Oil which is a nat's wing over 1%.

    On a (even greater) tangent in 2009 Solar provided less than 0.01% of the uk's electrical power out put

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. Smudge
    Member

    But hopefully solar will provide 100% of my phone's battery power next week...
    Cycle touring time! Whoo-hoo! B-)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. steveo
    Member

    Lucky you, i'm eyeing up a bivvy fo my next trip later in the year. When the rain gets stuck in...

    Probably be better with another thread buuuut, what you using for charging your phone?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "Just in case any one is interested"

    I think everyone should be!

    There's usually plenty in the news about 'energy', 'renewables', 'price of petrol', 'energy gaps' etc.

    I think most people are just confused (not least those who have to take major decisions).

    Some people think electric cars are 'the answer', perhaps with the electricity coming from nuclear which is 'low carbon'

    Today's news -

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/29/carbon-emissions-nuclearpower

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. wee folding bike
    Member

    i like looking at wind farms. On a clear day I can see Whitelee from the upstairs front windows.

    They seem to think the cycle paths on the wind farm are extreme but I haven't found anything you can't do on a Brompton (with mudguards and lights).

    Posted 14 years ago #

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