CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Scrap all cycle lanes?

(15 posts)

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  1. osbert
    Member

    Cycling in the city centre is hell. Vans cutting into the cycle lane, lorries unloading in the cycle lane, vehicles in the forward stop lines.

    What had been a pleasant ride through quiet streets this morning became a battle, and left me angry and frustrated. Not a good start to the day.

    I wonder though if a least part of my frustration is because my expectations are raised by the existence of cycle lanes and forward stops lines? Because they are there, I expect to be able to use them, and for them to make my journey safer and more pleasant.

    If they didn't exist, at least I'd have no false illusions - I'd know exactly where I stand as a cyclist in the eyes of the council and most other road users: irrelevant and unwanted. I could then be realistic, and adopt the right mental attitude for commuting to work by bike: prepare for the war zone.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. holisticglint
    Member

    Yes - It is immensely frustrating sometimes. I suppose this is the classic question of what is worse: poor infrastructure or no infrastructure which is the basic premise of the "vehicular cyclist" philosophy of sharing the road as equals with cars.

    [EDIT] Just to point out I don't see cycling along at 20mph in traffic as a good thing [/EDIT]

    However I think you have hit on the core issue here. Pottering along to work on a nice(ish) summer morning should be an enjoyable experience but it's not and the reason for that generally has 4 wheels and goes vrooom.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. holisticglint
    Member

    It did occur to me this morning sitting in an ASL that the HGV behind could not see me. Sure enough ASLs are exactly the same size and shape as blind spots.

    Some infrastructure is definitely worse than others and it is not alway obvious which is which.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. wingpig
    Member

    I almost never expect to be able to use a marked cycle lane or get up to an advanced stop line. Likewise bus lanes, never guaranteed to not contain a broken-down bus or parked delivery vehicle.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Is it bad to get to the front of the ASL, realise you're infront of a lorry that may well not be able to see you and then pull over the stop line to give the driver a better chance to see you?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    No. it's called a survival strategy.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. Baldcyclist
    Member

    For me staying alive is key, and the best way to do that is to stay behind any large vehicle at a junction. I wouldn't filter, either left or right to get past a stationary bus or lorry at junction.
    Unless they come up behind you whilst already at lights, in which case you would presume (or at least hope!) that they might remember you are there when lights go green.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. Morningsider
    Member

    Got to disagree on the "Cycling in the city centre is hell" thing. I love the feeling of fleeting through the traffic like some will-o-the-wisp amongst lumbering behemoths. Can it be frustrating - yes, dangerous - not unreasonably, but never dull. How alive do you feel when you get to work? Much more than your car and bus bound colleagues I would guess.

    I think on-road cycling infrastructure is a good thing. Even if it is ignored, it reminds other road users that cyclists exist and belong on the road.

    Are cyclists irrelevant and unwanted - perhaps by some, but not by many I would argue. The City of Edinburgh Council commits more time, effort and importantly money to cycling than pretty much any other Scottish local authority. It could do far more, but I want to give credit where it is due - after all, some councillors and officers have to argue for that investment in cycling. How does it look if we always criticise their efforts - will they eventually give up and go with the easy option of investing solely in making car trips easier?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. DaveC
    Member

    I'm glad most of my route to Fife is on cycle paths and quiet roads through Dalmeny. The most difficult part of my ride is avoiding the yobs hanging around the cycle path north of Edinburgh who ask me why I don't have a bell when I shout ahead 'Excuse me!'.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. Smudge
    Member

    @Morningsider, I'm another weirdo who actually enjoys riding in city centre traffic.

    @Dave, an airzound at the last moment is the (childish but funny) answer ;-)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. Yep, I enjoy riding through the city traffic as well. Okay, so there are a few incidents that make you wonder at times, but for the most part it's great being able to dice with the traffic and win...

    Then again, I like having a commute of contrasts, so I can hit a quiet, relaxed bit if I want.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. LaidBack
    Member

    osbert I could then be realistic, and adopt the right mental attitude for commuting to work by bike: prepare for the war zone.

    You may already have the right attitude.
    Basically cyclists are not alone in having painted marks in the road being ignored. You only have to look at yellow box junctions which jam up.

    Cycle lanes are always an afterthought - we reckon that even wheelie bins get a better deal. Every so often you do get one that works though... or shows potential.

    Lanes like the ones at Hotel Mussolini could work if made wider, coloured and not zig-zagged. Even in Amsterdam you will get vehicles crossing cycle lanes to park - they just do it more carefully

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. wingpig
    Member

    The feeder channel and double-width left/right ASL heading out of Holyrood Park Road usually works quite well.

    Not sure about the whole 'war zone' thing. War is a very aggressive thing. Assertion and aggression are not the same; anticipatory/defensive riding is not fighting back.

    You never want to feel that you have to use a cycle lane as it's artificially confining you to a very small channel, with little room to maneouvre around the greater number of obstacles usually found in them. Using the whole traffic lane leaves a much greater margin for error, either on the part of the cyclist or the other traffic.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. osbert
    Member

    @Morningsider @smudge I used to enjoy that as well, but as I become older and more laidback I find it less appealing.

    And perhaps I'm being completely unrealistic; as @LaidBack says, all road users experience the frustration of other road users not following the rules.

    I do think the big issue here is expectations. In my particular case, I had just enjoyed, actually enjoyed, a pretty quiet ride up from Portobello, through Duddingston, past the Loch, along the Meadows, until then BANG out on to Forrest Road. I was really relaxed and energised by the first part of the ride, feeling it was really setting me up for the day - some exercise, mental relaxation, contact with nature(ish). But all those benefits were blasted away on that last leg along Forrest Road, G IV B, and the Mound.

    If I'd consciously set off in the assertive-rider frame of mind, and been ready to enjoy the dance-with-the-metalboxes, I'd perhaps arrived exhilarated rather than angry and frustrated.

    In the bigger picture, I wonder what expectation cycle lanes, ASL's etc create for cyclists? And if this expectation is counterproductive - especially for novice cyclists or at least those attempting to commute by bike for the first time. Here's all this infrastructure saying, in effect, "you can cycle safely here, we've thought of your needs, you're welcome", when the reality is somewhat different.

    I think I've been very influenced by presentations I've heard about superb cycling infrastructure in parts of Europe, where, it appears, relaxed, unhassled, commuting, is the norm. And unconsciously I've been feeling that's what Edinburgh is emulating - when in fact, all that's possible at the moment is to make a bad cycling environment slightly less bad. So the root of my frustration is the comparison of reality with Utopia!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    @osbert

    Missoni Lane (Again)

    Posted 13 years ago #

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