Is it possible?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
Cycle Chic in Edinburgh?
(27 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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I have been thinking of blogging something like that! I think things are changing, as cycling is becoming more popular there is less Hi-Viz and silly hats, but there is still along way to go...
Posted 14 years ago # -
Unfortunately I don't think it will happen while motorists can still be absolved of all blame in collisions or near-collisions by claiming they "didn't see you". And also while cyclists who have been run over are vilified and penalised in the courts for not wearing a helmet. So, luminous yellow all-over body armour for all.
Also, someone in the comments makes the point that you are pretty much forced to cycle everywhere at speed to keep up with the traffic and so need proper cycling gear, lycra, breathable fabrics etc. I certainly feel more comfortable in it.
Posted 14 years ago # -
No I don't buy that, the TRL carried out an analyse of all the factors involved in road "accidents", among the things they found were that lack of "Hi-Viz" was a factor in less than 5% of collisions involving cyclist. Most collisions occur in daylight and good weather, and over 90% were due to driver error. There is much fuss made in the press about "contributory negligence" being claimed by slimy lawyers, but just how often does it happen in reality? For that matter how often do the courts actually agree? If it was a regular occurrence it wouldn't get press coverage, it only gets the coverage that does because it is rare.
As for the need for Lycra, I cycled for over 30 years before I bought my first pair of cycle shorts (or for that matter my first yellow cycling jacket). The lack of Lycra never stopped me from keeping up with the traffic, OK so when I start wearing Lycra, I did start to develop a bit of a fetish, but I am getting over that...
Posted 14 years ago # -
I would never claim to be chic but you can wear lycra underneath normal clothing, with or without a fetish. Thus if my first meeting is somewhere that I need to arrive at dressed like a civilian, that is what I do but with goretex biblongs underneath - just same as long johns really. then at home time leave the civilian clothing at work and put on my hi-viz - I want to be seen - I do not want to be hit just so I can have a good moral position on bad drivers, I just want them to see me. Of course, lights, reflectors, hi viz, even the altura night vision stuff probably only helps a small percentage of drivers to notice you as there are many blind drivers on the road (blind to the bike that is)
Posted 14 years ago # -
You misunderstand me-I do not believe hi-viz makes any difference to whether drivers "see you" or not. But the media, the police, judges, countless poster campaigns etc claim it does. And while it does, the myth that you actually need it will be perpetuated.
Edit-That was in reply to Kim-I started typing then got distracted. :-)
Posted 14 years ago # -
"there are many blind drivers on the road (blind to the bike that is)"
I am quite sure that there are many drivers who would fail the standard sight test they passed whenever they took the test.
Seems pretty basic that drivers should get an eye test every three years or so.
The only way to make it happen (because UK Governments don't want to be seen to upset motorists...) would be for insurance companies to insist. It would probably be cost effective for them to pay for the test.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I agree Min. So how do we go about killing the myth?? There is a lot of confusion in the promotion of "safe cycling", sadly the evidence based approach is not taken. It is widely accepted that increasing the number of cyclist on the roads increases safety. When cycle use doubles, the risk of injury per cyclist falls by 35% to 40%. There has to be away of making cycling normal, rather than treating it as a high risk activity which is not.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I am not sure that eye sight is a major part of the problem, it is more that they are not looking. Which is why the current advice given by cycle trainers is to cycle where driver look for other traffic. As the number of cyclist on the roads increases so driver start to look for them more.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Not to dispute any of this, but had been wanting to say that your division between 'chic' and 'hi viz' is rather artificial. I go opposite to gembo -- today I cycled in nice calf-length leather boots, a knee length skirt, and a black wool coat (designer but from charity shop!), since I had to lecture the ravening first years. Then, on top, my hi-viz vest, helmet with light, and gloves with stuck on hi-viz tape. I will _never_ claim to be chic, but I hope I didn't look too silly either. More happy medium please.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"As the number of cyclist on the roads increases so driver start to look for them more."
That is certainly true, but eyesight is something that can deteriorate gradually without people realising that it's not 'good enough' for reasonably safe driving.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Kim-"So how do we go about killing the myth??"
Argh, that is the 60 million dollar question! I think it requires a shift in attitude which will happen if it is properly addressed. Look at smoking. Once socially acceptable and even encouraged, now it is not but it has taken many years to change this.
A friend of mine from Sweden once asked me why cyclists all wear this uniform in the UK. I had to explain it was because we were expected to. She just looked confused.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Min I've come across that surprise at cyclist behaviour in Edinburgh among people from the Netherlands. One colleague couldn't understand our obsession with mountain bikes; another when offered a bike to use during her stay said nothing would persuade her onto the Edinburgh roads from what she had seen of our driver behaviour.
Not to change the subject or anything but I saw that guy in the first photo heading into town on the Innocent Railway path down near Peffermill this afternoon.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@ chdot "That is certainly true, but eyesight is something that can deteriorate gradually without people realising that it's not 'good enough' for reasonably safe driving. "
True, but I am not sure it is a major part of the SMIDSY problem.
@ Min sadly there are a lot entrenched attitudes to over come first.
Posted 14 years ago # -
When we started commuting out the A90 to Fife, I got my girlfriend the identical Wiggle jacket to mine, except in high-viz (mine was black).
Guess who experienced more close overtakes?
It's not as simple as you'd think - there's a great bit of topical discussion around high viz on the CTC forum just now, if you have a little time on your hands.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Yesterday going down the Royal Mile I stopped at the red light sign at the road works. A car pulled up behind me waited a few moments, then overtook me and pulled up just short of the lights themselves. The oncoming traffic had some trouble getting past the car. Perhaps there's some driver psychology which finds high viz jackets, lights, helmets and careful attention to traffic signs just too much to bear. Perhaps some drivers only accept cyclists if the cyclist fuels their justification for hating cyclists in the first place. Perhaps cyclists fill a need.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Sounds like you were too close to the kerb... I always try to position myself roughly where I would be if I was inside a car (if that makes sense) and always dismount my right foot in preference to the left.
If you give people an opportunity to get past, however inconvenient or dangerous, there are a certain proportion who will sieze it.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I have twice had drivers drive round me and onto the pedestrian crossing at red lights despite me being in the middle of the lane!
Re. eyesight. I think it is a good idea for drivers to be tested for physcial fitness to drive, especially as they get older but I agree with Kim that it has very little to do with SMIDSY. Witness the behavior of pedestrians. Notice how many walk out in front of you without looking. They didn't see you because they didn't look. Notice how many of them look, see you, then walk out in front of you anyway because you are "just" a cyclist. Then remember that drivers are people too and their behaviour is reflective of how people behave (but with added death).
Re-Hatred. Well people aren't allowed to hate blacks and jews any more. :-)
Posted 14 years ago # -
Dave I was in primary position because I didn't want anyone trying to overtake me once the lights changed. Maybe the driver thought I should be in the gutter and that's why he/she went round me like that.
I've had some pretty bad driver reactions to my being in primary position at lights. The worst was in Dalkeith where a driver pushed me along the road with his front bumper. I've also had the crazy revving thing but I suspect we've all had that.Posted 14 years ago # -
Really I can honestly say that I take every opportunity to get in front of cars at ASLs, and I can't remember the last time that anyone lost it. I wonder why this is!
Which routes do you ride through town? (Mine is either Cameron toll > duddingston > a1 > leith, or cameron toll > bridges > leith walk, or morningside> dalry > roseburn path)
Maybe I'm just lucky, or perhaps I look scarier!
Posted 14 years ago # -
@ Cyclingmollie I hope you reported this assault to the police, that sort of dangerous behaviour should not be tolerated.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@Kim It was on a training ride with Edinburgh Road Club and no I didn't report it except to the other riders when I caught them up.
@Dave I think you've been lucky. What someone looks like is just another way of blaming the victim. Why should I have to look scary (I'm a 6' 2" male btw)? Or wear flouro or whatever.
@Min I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's just people's carelessness multiplied to the power of car.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"It's just people's carelessness multiplied to the power of car. "
Ooh that is a good way of putting it!
That is a horrible incident Cyclingmollie. I think it is fair to say that every incidence of dangerous aggression (as opposed to ignorance or SMIDSY) I have had, I have been in primary position so it is not true that it is some sort of panacea for avoiding bad driving.
Back on the subject of cycle chic-when I went to get my bike yesterday it had a flat front tyre. Not sure whether it would be quicker to try and change inner tube or steed I went for a change of steed. And then felt rather silly during my journeys perched on my folding bike all lycrad up. :-)
Posted 14 years ago # -
I did say in another string that I thought driver behaviour was improving - you see on the string where Anth clips the car the driver is totally sympathetic. So we are always collecting bad driver stories rather than good driver stories, easier to remember what with the outrage etc. However, yesterday was completely mental - shoaling and RLJing by all drivers at all junctions I was completely hyper by time I got to work, 10 miles of being in some sort of real life video game Dodge The Nutters.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I also said on another thread that I think in general Edinburgh drivers are pretty good. But the good driver stories are seldom interesting. For example the ones that slow down as soon as you look round to pass a parked car or something. Would be a boring thread wouldn't it? ;-)
Posted 14 years ago # -
min - that is a better way of saying what I said. I think we should start a string - boring stories of good driving - the other day someone pulled over a little to let me go up the inside, I thought that was nice.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Hehe, good idea, go ahead! I will post a link to a good blog post about negativity and how to enjoy the bike on it.
Posted 14 years ago #
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