CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Disc Brakes on a Racer

(66 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from gembo

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  1. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Well, it didn't take long, but I'm a convert!

    Now I know that well set up calipers and cantis (and Vs) can provide good stopping power, but by eck, the security that I felt with the discs riding in traffic this morning. Which can only be enhanced if/when it's wet.

    Then add in the possible better strength of a disc specific rim which doesn't need a braking surface (the front rim on my fixed and, to a lesser extent, mainly because it's done less miles, of the Kaff, are both really worn).

    Whaddya reckon? More than just a fad?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. steveo
    Member

    I'm totally sold on discs if i ever get round to getting a Kaff it'll be with disc forks.

    Although i managed to warp the front disc on my mtb after the winter i think the repeated heating and cooling in the harsh winter did them no favours.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Speaking of Mountain Bikes, my Soul's discs have given up the ghose after winter abuse - my short experience with the Road BB7s means I'm thinking of ditching the hydraulic Hopes and going with cables. Cheaper, easier to sort (and set up!), plenty stopping power (certainly for my riding).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. SRD
    Moderator

    Wasn't going to reply (since i don't race) but if by racer you mean a road bike (as in the other thread), then yes, disc brakes are fab.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Wasn't going to reply (since i don't race) but if by racer you mean a roadbike, then yes, disc brakes are fab."

    It's as if you read my mind - check out the other thread just started... ;)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. Arellcat
    Moderator

    But you already have the Hope discs on your mountain bike, don't you, so it's not a completely new experience. The Avid Vs are pretty good, but given the choice for Scottish weather I'd have discs by preference, as long as in the wet they don't squeal like a two-tone air horn. That was fun for about five minutes. But not having to replace rims is very liberating, too.

    There are even one or two Bromptons that have been adapted for disc brakes. Fearsome probably doesn't even come close.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. tarmac jockey
    Member

    Are you advocating that these disk brakes are the way forward for the racer period? If so do you think we will ever see them for example on the TDF? I agree that the rims on the non-disk wheel wear really quickly but for racing the speed of changing the wheel probably mitigates against the use of the disk in road racing.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Yeah, but despite a few commutes on the MTB I'd never really considered the stopping power on the lighter bike from a (generally) higher speed with road levers. Feels superb in comparison to what I've had before. And different, somehow, from braking on a flat bar, over rough ground, with an MTB lever...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "... but for racing the speed of changing the wheel probably mitigates against the use of the disk in road racing."

    I hadn't really thoguht about that aspect, you're right, it might be an issue. But certainly on Twitter at the start of last week there were a few riders (on the Tour and previous pros and Tour winners) wondering why disc brakes weren't allowed (I presume they're not allowed by the UCI, given it took until recently for them to be allowed on CX bikes where they REALLY make sense).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. steveo
    Member

    I usually think along the lines that non discs are a safety feature in pro races, one shouldn't be braking hard in the peleton.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. tarmac jockey
    Member

    I don't own any bikes with disk brakes at the moment. If I make the change at some point I might have to change my name to "disk jockey" as opposed to "tarmac jockey".

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. Min
    Member

    "I usually think along the lines that non discs are a safety feature in pro races, one shouldn't be braking hard in the peleton. "

    Are they not heavier as well?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. wingpig
    Member

    "...i managed to warp the front disc on my mtb after the winter i think the repeated heating and cooling in the harsh winter did them no favours..."
    "...my Soul's discs have given up the ghost after winter abuse... ...despite a few commutes on the MTB..."

    You're not selling them very well. I've yet to try anything with discs, but have also yet to try anything which isn't a bottom-of-the-range dual-pivot Tektro caliper, albeit one fitted with pink flavour Koolstop blocks (which brake better than those powder-creating grey things and don't yet seem to be eating away at my rims too much).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I might have to change my name to "disk jockey" as opposed to "tarmac jockey"

    Hehehehe!

    Are they not heavier as well?

    They're getting better, and I can guarantee if the UCI allowed their use the manufacturers would be onto further developing the tech in a shot!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    You're not selling them very well...

    The 'few commutes' related to a period years back when I put slicks on and used the MTB for a couple of months. The disc issues more recently are basically that I used the MTB for the couple of weeks of awful weather recently and did nothing to the bike when switching back to the fixed. Just left it in the garage. The discs are 7 years old, and would still be going strong if I hadn't killed them.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. Smudge
    Member

    For road bikes? Depends on the use, for a racer, fad ;-))

    imho!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. steveo
    Member

    You're not selling them very well.

    I have managed to bend them back to true (mostly) but a new disc is about £15 and a drop in replacement a new rim on the other hand...

    I do have to admit since fitting the 105 dp the racer/roadie/racing bike/road bike has felt much more secure than it did with basic tektro dps.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "not having to replace rims is very liberating, too"

    I like building wheels.

    "I agree that the rims on the non-disk wheel wear really quickly"

    Obviously depends how often you brake!

    And to some extent on brake blocks and grit etc.

    Disk are not new for 'controversy'. Some people think they are 'unaesthetic' - at least on bicycles with slim tyres (road/racer).

    Other threads have suggested that disc blocks wear quite quickly and are expensive to replace.

    Some hub brakes are pretty good - though not as 'awesome' as discs.

    Just avoid bikes with disc brakes that cost about £100!!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. druidh
    Member

    Having ridden my Amazon in all weathers, on 23mm tyres and with disc brakes, consistently out-braking others around me on "old-tech". I'm convinced that in 10 years, we'll look back and wonder why disc brakes took so long to be available on racers.

    I'm not sure I understand the argument that changing a disc-braked wheel would take longer either.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. wingpig
    Member

    "but a new disc is about £15 and a drop in replacement a new rim on the other hand..."

    It was just that you both mentioned foul-weather-related knackerage, which I thought to be a more rim-brake based problem with their issues around the accumulation of grinding-paste in the winter and reduction of friction in the wet.

    Next bike will probably be a re-built old bike, which is heavily caliper-biased. Current bike might be looking at a new fork at some point. I assume, amongst the wide range of affordable choices, there will be disc-supporting options?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    "since fitting the 105 dp"

    Yeah I like the Shimano ones rather than copies.

    I have various frames that 'need' the 'old' nuts rather than the recessed variety.

    Even on ebay they can be hard to find.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Ah, I see. Nah, it was a lack-of-maintenance issue in my case.

    Urgh, I can still hear that grinding paste on my rims...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "I'm not sure I understand the argument that changing a disc-braked wheel would take longer either."

    Would be more problematic for 'neutral service' unless rotor size/position becomes standard/exact.

    Presume pro race bikes have same width rims???

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Dave
    Member

    In theory you should be able to drop any disc wheel into any bike - I've quite often swapped between our two MTBs, road bike and recumbent and find it usually requires a quick re-adjustment since they don't have the same brand of hubs, I guess they are made to different tolerances. (For a TdF team car it would be no problem as they just need to use the same hubs on the spare wheels as the race ones.)

    In fact, I have only one back wheel that serves double duty on my MTB and recumbent (when I want the reliable option).

    I got about 2500 miles from my first set of hydraulic disc brake pads on the lowracer, and with no fiddling adjustments in all that time either (across one winter and two summers).

    Wouldn't go back to rim brakes unless I had to.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. Smudge
    Member

    I'll be interested to see if the trickle down technology effect is the same for bicycles as motorbikes, motorcycles now have fantastically light powerful discs, which sieze at the first hint of winter roads and need regular (expensive) rebuilds.

    Current bicycle discs are derived from brakes designed with off road use in mind, I wonder if "road" variants will be as robust.

    With having to adjust the brakes every 500 miles ish and fit a new set of pads every thousand or so I can live with the onerous maint schedule on my V's for a while yet ;-)
    The Avid hydraulics on the MTB are very good but they squeal like crazy after being left for a while :-/ Apart from that so far so good :-)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. PS
    Member

    Re disc brakes on racers, ultimately brakes on race bikes are for slowing you down rather than stopping you.

    From a pure safety perspective, there are arguments both ways: you don't want a rider slowing/stopping suddenly in a fast-moving peloton; however, I suspect Vino/Zabriskie etc may have liked to have had better stopping power descending off the Puy Mary on Sunday rather than clipping a barrier or pinging off the road (although, that said, had they been able to throw on the disc anchors, they'd probably have been shunted over the barriers by the guys crashing into them from behind).

    Discs on commuters/CXs/tourers seem eminently sensible though.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. Dave
    Member

    I've never quite got the 'peleton safety' argument (as someone who has experience of riding in a chaingang). There's quite enough power in the lamest of rim brakes to cause an enormous pile up - you don't even need to brake, say if you stand up at the bottom of a hill causing your back wheel to shoot back and wipe out the man behind you!

    On the other hand, when you need to stop, you need to stop. Given a choice between crashing into something or not crashing into something (but running the risk that someone behind will make contact with you) I'd definitely choose the latter - who wouldn't? Largely it's following riders who come off in a collision anyway... ;-)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. DaveC
    Member

    Are any road bikes sold with disk brakes from new rathern having a specific frame (with mounts) made custom?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. steveo
    Member

    What type of road bike ;)

    Planet-X's Kaffenback has disk forks but you need v-s for the rear. Thats actually the only one i can think off but there will be others. A Van Nicholson would probably do the job....

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Planet-X has a disc Kaffenback frame in development (I know someone who gets prototypes from them, and brand new stuff, to ride and write about it...)

    Posted 12 years ago #

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