CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Borrowing Kaputnik's slogan.
Could make a good campaign. How about a webpage with pictures uploaded bike lanes covered in parked cars?
I have previously issued a challenge for anyone to get a picture of this cycle lane with bikes in it instead of parked cars.
There is just no point at all to this. But what can we do?
"How about a webpage with pictures uploaded bike lanes covered in parked cars?"
This one will do (for now).
Also -
http://www.flickr.com/groups/barriers_to_cycling_in_edinburgh
I think this could provide some useful info/photos to ask CEC councillor candidates (next year) what they plan to do to encourage cycling...
I have one day left of my dreaded nursery commute, and was reflecting on it and wishing I had taken a camera every day and snapped that intersection each time....
Also, what about getting 'stop' written in front of the first stop line (ie not the ASL)? I don't think drivers realise they are crossing a stop line.
This morning, I sat behind a first bus that had zoomed past, and now sat dead centre straddling two lanes of traffic with main body of bus in ASL and front wheels past the ASL (much less the SL).
Count me in!
Melvlle Drive on any sunny evening, and all weekend, is a car park. Although in the case of Ferry Road it is literally a car park (with proper 'P' sign and everything) when sporting events are on at the playing fields.
Yup. Check out the sign in this image. If you zoom out, you'll see it is the same pic as in first post.
Even if they just started parking at 10, the traffic would move much faster.
But what I STILL don't get is how the council can stand up and say we've created x number of cyclelanes, when they then zone them for parking, or leave them with single yellows.
ASLs - Agree that a lot of drivers see the front stop line as the "real stop line" with the second one optional (if there is a cyclist in the ASL box).
I would remove the front stop line entirely (ie the one that is intended for cyclists) so that all there is in front of the stop line is a cycle painted on the road.
SRD - Perfectly legal to park there. In fact the Council encourage it by designating that space as pay and display parking bays. It would actually take some effort on the Council's part to change this - as it would require a Traffic Regulation Order to change the designated bays.
Not sure there is much we can do in this instance, might be worth keeping an eye on upcoming TROs though, to prevent this from happening again.
Perhaps we could encourage the Council to undertake a "cycle audit" of the city, with a view to identifying where there are barriers to cycling and how these could be removed. Needn't be a massively expensive exercise if the Council harnessed the cycling community to collect the required information. The Council would just have to provide some sort of reporting standard and then collate and report on the information provided by cyclists.
Obviously, assessing the cost of removing these barriers would take some effort from the Council, can't expect cylcists to assess that, but I don't see that as an insurmountable problem. Perhaps the recently discussed EU dosh could be diverted from producing leaflets to this work.
The Council could then produce an action plan for removing these barriers, with dated milestones for implementation.
Perhaps I've been out in the sun too long (!?) - could this really happen?
Nah, far too sensible an idea Morningsider...
I think, though, that your first paragraph is really the big issue here. It is perfectly legal to park there, in which case why also designate it as a cycle lane, because let's face it, it's never going to have no cars in it!
As I said in an email to Councillor Mackenzie "Surely there is no point in painting (expensive) red lanes on the road simply to act as parking bays"
"But what I STILL don't get is how the council can stand up and say we've created x number of cyclelanes, when they then zone them for parking, or leave them with single yellows. "
Well I think that is exactly the point for the council. They can proudly annouce that they have xxx miles of cycle lanes in the city without having to do anything as potentially unpopular as actually creating something that people can cycle in. It is win-win for them.
"It is perfectly legal to park there"
- at certain times of the day.
That is key to the 'problem'.
It would be nice if more cycle lanes were 'protected' by double yellows. There are probably a few that really ought to be. ('We' can argue about that and produce a good list.)
The Mound is obviously a possibility.
BUT it comes back to what the roads are "for" and what 'we' think they should be for and what politicians/council officials think the majority of voters want or (not very often unfortunately) what they ought to want!
There are certain basic assumptions - some of which should be challenged more often.
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Traffic should "flow"
and be helped to flow
Parking should be restricted during 'rush' hour so that people can get to work more easily
Some places need to allow short term parking for deliveries
Some places need parking for the benefit of shops
All sorts of assumptions are made about the necessity/price/times of parking to discourage commuters, encourage city centre commerce (etc.) - some of these conflict with other alleged aims such as encouraging Public Transport and cycling
Cars must be accommodated as much as possible (it would seem)
People who cycle are a minority - and always will be
Even if Edinburgh is to become a world class cycling city the car/bike/pedestrian balance won't change much
etc.
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There are 'part day' bus lanes (which confuse motorists so they tend to stay out of them all day).
There are 'part day' bike lanes which don't confuse motorists...
I think 'we' are therefore complaining about "part day bike lanes". It is clearly a bit dishonest to add these to the 'plus list' of 'miles of cycle lanes' (I think they also include the bus lanes).
It is probably a waste of money to make them red!
IF 'rush hour' traffic continues to get favoured, then even part time bike lanes must be beneficial (as long as the no parking is enforced - which is another issue!). A LOT could be done to address the various issues about "necessity/price/times of parking", but...
To some extent the problem isn't about parking on bike lanes (it's not as though they are neatly continuous when not parked on!) The bigger problems relate to "road space" - and, particularly, the way it is shared and also the attitude of vehicle drivers to cyclists.
If there are cars parked (legally) on bike lanes then it might seem reasonable for 'drivers' to 'understand' why bikes are on the road in front of them. UNFORTUNATELY too many people who drive don't seem to be rational - plus (quite reasonably) they don't see themselves as part of a 'motorist tribe' so that when some of their fellows are being allowed to park on cycle lanes they should give up a bit of time/space to the bike in front.
It's unfortunate that we have a UK Government that made a big deal of 'ending the war on motorists' (not that previous governments were any better).
Edinburgh really needs to have a convincing transport strategy that it is willing to take a lead on that addresses the needs/desires of residents/visitors and favours people - pedestrians/cyclists/drivers more than vehicles.
It's perfectly reasonable to want to get to work/shops/etc but perhaps less reasonable to take your car too. Or at least pay a more realistic price for doing so. OOH that sounds like an argument for Congestion Charging - which Edinburgh residents voted against...
Perhaps, instead of collecting images/examples of impediments/road-component misuses specific to cyclists we should collect examples of all instances of a specific measure for a specific purpose being blocked/impaired/made less effective, whether it's parked cars in a cycle lane or bins in a cycle lane or roadwork-warning signs in a cycle lane or drain-sinkholes in a cycle lane or parked cars in a bus lane or parked cars on approaches to hazards such as roundabouts or places where there ought to be an oncoming-traffic-blocking right-turn filter and so on. "The roads are wrong for all users" might stir non-cyclists more than "the roads are wrong for cyclists", particularly if it highlights the apparent "waste" of money on ineffective/unused measures for groups other than non-VED-paying traffic-delaying registration-less invisible law-flouting whinging cyclists.
Perhaps Edinburgh could switch to road-centre marked cycle lanes, protecting cyclists from left-hookers, drain-sinkholes, gutter-particles, door-openings and being trapped on the left by obstinate traffic (for people who don't ride in the middle of the lane) when they come to want to turn right (albeit probably trapping them on the right instead). Expensive cars' valuable paint and delicate wing mirrors would be protected by a two buffer lanes of slow-moving and squishy cyclists between opposing lanes of fast-moving and crunchy cars. It would then be the card's problem that their parked colleagues were encroaching on their valuable moving-space, though the obvious solution to this would be for them to ignore the cycle lane on their right.
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"The roads are wrong for all users" might stir non-cyclists more than "the roads are wrong for cyclists"
"
Yes, though it would be a long list...
Probably not as long as a similar one for pedestrians!
"Making the case for investment in the walking environment"
Following this discussion above I got another reply from Councillor Mackenzie:
CYCLE LANES AND PARKING
Thank you for your enquiry regarding S...D..’s request for an update on the above topic. Since her previous correspondence we have compiled a comprehensive geographic database of the city’s cycle lanes and the parking restrictions related to them. This will
now enable us to review these restrictions to assess where they could be increased to improve the operation of existing cycle lanes, in particular where they are most needed such as on the approach to Advanced Stop Lines.
We now have a policy of implementing new cycle lanes only where these can be protected by parking restrictions at times of high traffic and parking demand. An example of this is the Quality Bike Corridor proposed for the George Square – King’s
Buildings route where it is proposed that either parking is banned in cycle lanes between 7.30pm and 6.30pm or cycle lanes are taken outside of parking bays (with a margin for safety).
"
We now have a policy of implementing new cycle lanes only where these can be protected by parking restrictions at times of high traffic and parking demand.
"
Not sure if that's good or bad??
Someone could always do a Yehuda Moon guerrilla style action. Sneak out at night with yellow paint and add extra yellow lines.... That would confuse the drivers!
I don't know about Yehuda Moon, but I did used to know some ELFs (Edinburgh Liberation Front) who in 1972 "had some different criminal charges against them for ..being apprehended at 1.30am while painting double yellow (no parking) lines along the street."
"wave of pedestrian activism that took place in the 1970s and early 1980s"
any familiar faces from nearly 40 years ago?
@slowcoach Thanks for posting those links, especially the shot of them cycling up the Mound (nice Raleigh Twenty RSW 16 at the front). Very inspirational (not the summons for criminal charges bit) and a reminder that advocacy/activism is a historical process of which 'we' are part.
A wee bit of digging reveals this interesting snippet:
"In my youth I was a member of a loose anarchist group known as the Edinburgh Liberation Front, or ELF (and a member of the team which produced its house magazine, 'Roots', if anyone remembers that), which regularly organised bike-ins in central Edinburgh (usually ending with mass picnics in the Meadows), with the objective of getting central Edinburgh (pretty much between Forest Row and Queen Street) closed to through motor vehicle traffic. It was good fun and we did achieve the pedestrianisation of Rose Street so not entirely a waste of time."
@slowcoach + @crowriver isn't the internet a wonderful place!
I've seen the second reference before, but not the first - though I know who it's about (not me!)
"any familiar faces from nearly 40 years ago?" - not in a photo that small - presume you've seen a bigger version(?)
It's interesting how the years change people's precise memories. I'd forgotten about some of the activities 'before Spokes',
Spokes organised annual rides for a few years I remember one going to the top of Calton Hiil and another to Holyrood Park - attended by Robin Cook (MP) and Alastair Darling (Councillor).
The late Robin Cook is a contributor to the 1980 Spokes booklet that I inherited.
"1980 Spokes booklet that I inherited"
Blue with cartoon?
"presume you've seen a bigger version(?)" - yes I'd forgotten/hadn't realised I'd signed up for free access to RCAHMS/SCRAN which let me see a more detailed version of the ELF photo.
Blue with cartoon?
uh-huh
I viewed the SCRAN image of ELF demo from the university network. No problem viewing full size, nor even downloading it. If anyone works/studies in a university, college, or school I think if you access the SCRAN site from the educational network it should be fine.
Double on either side of the dropped kerb. Specially single across the mouth of the dropped kerb... Other end is no better as we've discussed previously.
Plus chainlink fence - signpost - bollard - lamp post combo to make it fun.
Came that way this evening and noticed the very same re. the yellow lines. Remembered that last time I went through there there was a chap sitting in his white van across the entrance. I gave him an evil stare (that'll teach him) - I assumed at the time he was on a double yellow (still a selfish/thoughtless place to stop).
It's obviously far more important to squeeze one more car in to town.
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