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Equipment help pls...

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Started 13 years ago by DaveC
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DaveC
Member

My Employer is giving us a second bite at the cyclescheme.co.uk cherry starting on Monday 1st Aug. I'm thinking of buying the Cotic >X< Weekday with discs, as it comes in at £975, just under the £1000, limit. The spec which comes as standard is Tiagra drivetrain with Sora STI 9spd and has Compact chainset instead of Triple.

I'd like the triple with a Tiagra STI, so I'm guessing I need to buy after market:

Shimano STI 9spd Tiagra £179 or 105 £215
Shimano Front derailleur Triple Tiagra £28 or 105 £28??
Shimano Triple chainset Tiagra £89 or 105 £146

# or even 105's is the price increase is not so much.

Now here are my questions, do I need a new drivetrain to convert to a Triple? or can I just bolt on another ring?
Do I need a new front derailleur or are they adjustable?
There appear to be 6 0r 7 different front derailleurs for the Shimano 105, 5700, 5600, 5603, Braze & Band... Whats the difference?

Many thanks,

Dave C

Posted 13 years ago #
steveo
Member

Front mech probably won't work, the rear probably won't work either. STI will probably work, my front shifter has three positions despite being for a compact. Sneaky edit: Just noticed the sora STI mine are Tiagra so that advice might not be true, but unless they've massivly improved the sora shifters i'd be inclined to upgrade any way.

I had this problem earlier in the year when I decided to go triple from compact. Ended up with just a middle ring for a few weeks till my new compact turned up.

Unless you have some very severe hill i'd just htfu :D. Seriously though there is very little i've not been able to hit with a compact thought i've never had to carry much luggage on my road bike.

Posted 13 years ago #
Min
Member

I converted my Surly to triple and needed to get a new bottom bracket and a new front derailleur. The shifter seems to be able to cope as does the rear mech-can't see why it wouldn't though it might need adjusting.

I think Braze and Band for the front derailleur refers to how it attaches to the frame-whether it is clamped on or whether it bolts to a braze-on(?) on the frame.

Posted 13 years ago #
steveo
Member

It depends on the derailleur the cage has to be long enough to cope with extra chain (apparently)

Posted 13 years ago #
Dave
Member

You need a new chainset, new front derailleur and a triple-speed compatible left STI lever. Everything about the rear gearing is agnostic to single/double/triple chainset configuration.

Surely it would be better to buy a bike that comes with a triple? Honestly, I think you're paying more to "fix" this bike than you save on the scheme!

Posted 13 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

I think Braze and Band for the front derailleur refers to how it attaches to the frame-whether it is clamped on or whether it bolts to a braze-on(?) on the frame.

Yep. If your frame doesn't have a braze-on to bolt the derailleur on then you will need the one that comes with (the correct sized) band. The bands are pretty cheap, tenner each or something.

A "compact" chainset just means it's a double with a different sizing and ratio of the front rings to rear rings than you'd get in a "standard" (sometimes called "race gearing"?). It is (I think) an attempt to provide a wider range of ratios (at both ends of the spectrum) than you would with a "regular" double to give something closer to a triple.

At the very least you will need a triple crank as the Shimano cranks are specifically either double, compact or triple and a triple derailleur for the front. E.g. the SORA cranks are FC-3300 for the double and FC-3303 for the triple.

Shimano specify different SORA STIs for double and triple (under the same part number, confusingly) I know some people manage to get a double lever to control a triple derailleur, you could try it and see and if it doesn't work, order the triple lever later.

However a word of caution would be that drivetrain components, when not bought with a new bike, are generally much more expensive than they would seem from bike price, especially when you order individual components rather than a whole set. You would be cheaper (and much more in warranty) to go for a triple-equipped bike from the outset if that's what you want.

Posted 13 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

Yep. Agree with all the above from Min, Dave and Kappers.

New chainset, front mech, front shifter and (possibly) bottom bracket.

I've got a compact double and it is, as pointed out, intended to give a wider gear range from top to bottom. It does result in bigger jumps between ratios than a 'standard' close ratio set. My SRAM Apex uses a cassette on the back that does look much more like an MTB cassette (much bigger) to further enhance the effect given the 'small' ring on the front still isn't as small as a granny ring on a triple.

I'd actually echo the thoughts above, probably better going for a triple from the outset.

One other note of caution on top of changing components and its effect on the warranty - is changing of components (save for wear and tear of things like tyres) allowed under the cyclescheme?

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

I can't see me changing the spec will affect the scheme so long as I put it back if I ever gave up the bike.

The bike comes only with a compact, and I think a change to a triple is not possible, though I have asked. The shop suggested buying the frame, forks, brakes and wheels and then buying a bike with the shimano spec I want and transfering them across. This at first thoughts appears a little expensive.. say £685 for:

Frame & Forks, £350
Fork upgrade, £100
Brakes, £75
Alex R450 32 hole rims on ROADRAT cartridge bearing disc hubs plus tyres, tubes and rim tape £160

plus a bike which has Tiagra drivetrain... Anyone hazard a guess -> ~£700??

I'm after this model as it has the discs. Anyone know of another race type Cyclocross bike with brakes?

Posted 13 years ago #
Cyclingmollie
Member

Google says this.

Posted 13 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Again that's a double. I think your problem will be getting something "racy" with a triple, as so many things in seem to come with doubles / compacts off the shelf and triples seem right out of fashion outside the MTB/hybrid/touring market.

Whyte are doing some flat-barred, disc-braked roady/hybridy/cyclocrossy style bikes, again all seem to have doubles. EBC stock them.

Posted 13 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

And the ever-popular Croix-de-Fer if you can get one for under £1000 (RRP is £1099)

Boardman do a flat-bar, disc-brake road/CX bike. And I think one with drops now.

Kona Honky Inc is a drop-barred, disc-braked "road" bike. Kona Dew range are flat-barred and disk-braked and I think can be had with drops.

Posted 13 years ago #
Dave
Member

You could reconsider the need for a triple.

I'm not saying anything against them, but it would be *vastly* cheaper just to buy an 11-34 block and a longer cage mech (if necessary). This is what I did for my wife's Croix de Fer and it cost about £30, giving the bike a respectable gear range.

The 34-34 bottom gear you'd then have would be lower than something like a 30-28 on a triple with road cassette, so unless you were planning to change the cassette with the triple (not mentioned in your OP) you'd actually have a lower climbing gear.

The disadvantage of a compact double is the big jump between rings, but I think it's fine, as do many others. You can still get pretty low gears.

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Thanks again for the replies. The Pinnicle Arkrose looks nice and they have a different location for the brakes on the frame campared to the Cotic. The 105 spec if also good, but if has a short change arm on the read gears which prohibits putting too high a gear ratio on. I like Dave's idea of just changing the cassette, and this works on the Cotic as it has a long arm on the gear changer.

Posted 13 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

Here you go Dave - a finished Cotic X...

X and Arthurs Seat by blackpuddinonnabike, on Flickr

X Edinburgh View by blackpuddinonnabike, on Flickr

Of course now I'm not going to be unique-ish...

I'm still torn on whether the black or orange was better choice for the frame, but I've got an orange Cotic Soul mountain bike so decided on the (admittedly classier) black.

Posted 13 years ago #
amir
Member

Looks a beauty (and rather clean!). Did you cycle it up with those tyres (boggle-eyed smilie)?

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Wow, I'm slavering over my keyboard....

I have to order in Orange now though, or I'll look like a copycat.

I like the idea of BB7 brakes but they are more expensive. £75 (quoted) from the shop for both front and rear brakes. Did you go for the MTB or road brakes?

Posted 13 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

Did you cycle it up with those tyres (boggle-eyed smilie)?

No, but I cycled it down a way before it got rocky and steep (i.e. to the point I wouldn't ride my MTB down...). Made me want to put some proper CX tyres on (although those Ultremos are da bizniz on the road).

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Anth what size are the discs? 140 or 160? Do the discs come with the calipers for £40 online price?

Posted 13 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

160 front, can only take 140 rear (I made the mistake of not checking first!). Pretty sure the BB7s I got were more than £40 each, but yes, a kit will include the rotor with the calipers (and a cable adjuster thingy that is needed for them to work with drop levers).

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Anth, does the BB7 include the disc?

Posted 13 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

Yes (aka the rotor... ;) )

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Cool. I can only find 160's on ChainReaction and Evans, but Fatbirds.co.uk has the 140's. £120 the lot.

Just going to look at the Tektro Lyra as Cotic can provide both for £75.

Posted 13 years ago #
Dave
Member

It goes without saying that you should be careful to match the cable disc caliper with the lever you're using. "road" BB7 will work with the cable pull of a road brake (STI lever or old-school linear, either way) which "mtb" ones are designed for the cable pull of a V brake lever.

I don't have any cable road discs so don't know if it's the swing arm that is different or if they just ship you this adapter of which anth speaks..?

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Cheers Dave,

Funny you mention this as I bought new brake levers for my 4 year olds S/H bike from EBC which were advertised as V leavers. His bike has these type of brakes:

which at the time I didn't know were V brakes. I still don't know what is different about the pull of a caliper and V brake lever?

Anyway they work a treat and he has not problems stopping on steep desents, something he was scared about on his older bike which had Caliper brakes, as his small fingers could not pull hard enough for extended times.

Its a shame his (cheepy) full sus bike weighs more than my adult MTB as he is always asking about Glentress.

Posted 13 years ago #

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