"That would take a major shift in Edinburgh's strategic transport planning (a.k.a. "everything has to run through Princes Street")."
Yep, I said it wouldn't happen!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
The Unused Edinburgh Railway Lines
(93 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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Oh, that'll be why they built the City ByPass then, for all those people who want to go through the centre of town...
Interesting map, kaputnik. I'm guessing that as cyclists we are less surprised by what has been lost from the rail network, given that we spend a lot of time cycling along the old track beds.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Oh, that'll be why they built the City ByPass then, for all those people who want to go through the centre of town"
I always thought it was for people wanting to bypass Edinburgh.
Then I realised people used it for getting from one part of Edinburgh to another 'because it's quicker' (?)
Bit like the M25 then - more roads, more traffic.
Anyone got a list of cities that have taken out roads?
Posted 12 years ago # -
North Edinburgh is interesting, as essentially the rail network was in duplicate, with the "big 2" (North British and the Caledonian) fighting with eachother to do the same thing - namely get access to Leith Docks, approaching from both east and west.
The North British really got the upper hand in terms of routes. The Caledonian's routes (which have been a bit more obliterated) were a lot more contrived and certainly for the railway were expensive to build. They never even bothered putting the passenger services on the "Leith New Lines", leaving platforms and stations half built or not even started... A lot of the passenger services in North Edinburgh were withdrawn pre-beeching, even pre-nationalisation, as the routing of lines and positioning of stations just wasn't useful. After all they had been built with the big money of freight in mind. Trams were far more convenient for the travelling public.
The "sub" is interesting as it was built more with passengers in mind.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I seem to remember reading that the grand Central Station in Leith was built as a condition of permission for other lines, but was never 'justified' in passenger terms.
Probably in use longer as a diesel depot than a passenger station(?)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Leith Central was certainly far bigger and grandiose than its passenger use justified - and the fact it was just the terminus of a relatively minor branch from the not-too-distant Waverley. It was also built with the platform level well above street level, certainly not cheap! It was almost entirely a passenger station I think - terminus for a lot of "sub" services if memory serves me right.
It may have been something to do with permissions and I think equally that it was two fingers up to the Caley from the NB. If that was the case, it certainly worked as Caley never really bothered trying to develop passenger services in the north of Edinburgh any further.
It was a mainline station for 49 years and a depot for 20. Good set of photos here
Posted 12 years ago # -
Leith Central Station, ah that explains the huge wall on the east side of the Scotmid carpark. I used to live up the road, and I always thought there uswe to be a station there but assumed it was a rail goods yard for Leith during the wars or such.
Posted 12 years ago # -
yep, you can see a line in the wall, about 20 feet up from the ground, which would have been platform level.
You can also see a "new" building in the row of tenements at foot of Leith Walk. That filled the gap created when they demolished the "old" tenement in early 1900s to put the railway across the road.
Posted 12 years ago # -
There is also a set of four photographs on Flickr of Leith Central in 1981 when it was post-DMU depot but pre-demolition.
Posted 12 years ago # -
kaputnik: For those who are interested, over (a lot of) time I have compiled a pretty comprehensive google earth view of the railway lines of Scotland, a lot of which are no longer with us.
I never looked at this first time around, but just have. Seriously, seriously impressive bit of work and I shudder to think how many hours have been invested. 10 times more detailed (sidings, etc.) than I was expecting.
Computer struggled a bit to display it mind...
This was actually brought to mind by a NLS email someone sent me which mentioned, under the heading 'New map publications available this month',:
"[..] new publications relating to the Library's map collections are to be published this month. Drawn from the Bartholomew Archive, 'Mapping the Railways' journeys through 200 years of railway history of Great Britain using historical maps. [...]"
But just have the email - can't find reference to this on the NLS website.
And I know that Anth's mention of the Skye Marble Railway didn't count (not standard gauge and unconnected to the main network), but in case you are ever going down that road then two that I thought of, off the top of my head are:
and:
Sanday Light RailwaySanday one is interesting. I've been on it, in 2002 I think. Didn't know it was there beforehand, but was passing on a cycle tour (see - bike related!). It doesn't seem to have had such a happy life since then...
It was billed as "the most northerly passenger carrying railway in Great Britain" which suggested to me that somewhere further north there is a non passenger carrying railway. But where? Sullom Voe?Posted 12 years ago # -
Readers may be interested to note that there has been building work going on around the site of the old Abbeyhill station. I'm not sure what they are building, but suspect it's related to the copper clad residential block adjacent, where the eastern platform used to be.
Posted 12 years ago # -
There's a new photo on the Railscot website of recent proceedings at Abbeyhill. Look like the trackbed has been filled-in between the platforms. Why, I don't know but assume it may be an access road to develop the land to the North. It would be ridiculously simple to turn it into cycle path now...
Posted 12 years ago # -
If that's an access road, why is the infill going south towards the junction with Waverley? Also there's already access to that big triangle of land the other side of London Road via Lochend.
Hmmm. Maybe they are making a path for pedestrians and cyclists? It was certainly mooted in the North Edinburgh green spaces plan a while back...
Posted 12 years ago # -
The power of this forum!
Right, everyone start posting threads about what you'd like to see the council do for cyclists!!!
Posted 12 years ago # -
A month ago I was told that there would be some track laying - layover sidings to increase platform utility capacity at Waverley.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Further detail on Abbeyhill from September 2010 Council Action Plans:
Leith plan says:
"Powderhall and/or Abbeyhill Railway
Description: New green corridors linking to Lochend Park and the Water of Leith from Abbeyhill/Meadowbank, subject to future requirements for the Powderhall and/or Abbeyhill loop railway lines.
The lines of the Abbeyhill and Powderhall railways are identified as a transport safeguard in the Edinburgh City Local Plan. This protects the routes for cycle/footpath and possible public transport service. The routes are identified within the core path plan as potential future links to the Claremont and Easter Road path (CEC7)."But City Centre plan says in addition:
"There are two components to this proposal. The creation of the link between Lochend Park and Powderhall is dependent on the long term relocation of the waste transfer facility at Powderhall. While the Abbeyhill/Meadowbank link is dependent on the long term requirements of Network Rail as the route is safeguarded for the possible re‐ introduction of passenger services on the South Suburban Railway route to Waverley Station.
This proposal is also included in the neighbouring Leith Neighbourhood Partnership Area Action Plan. "Hmmm. So, I'm guessing the resurrection of that bit of the South Sub is not imminent, otherwise they's hardly infill the tracks! In the same document the cost of converting to path is cited at only £100k. Would be good to get a path from Abbeyhill to Lochend and cut out those busy roads...
I saw Carillion vans coming out of there the other day, if that means anything.....probably that the infill is to allow access for work on the ECML east of Waverley?
Posted 12 years ago # -
It would be odd to include Abbeyhill in any preservation plans for restoring passenger services on the Suburban & Southside Junction (which Network Rail are dead against anyway, I thought) as it's not part of that layout, but a diversionary loop on the Edinburgh, Leith & Newhaven line. I think earlier in BR days, the timetable for trains to the terminus at Leith Central included them running around the "Sub" though.
That is unless any plans for "Sub" were to include running onto the remaining stump of the EL&N to Powderhall from the ECML at Piershill, stopping perhaps at a re-instated Meadowbank station and then immediately taking the east chord of the old triangle at Abbeyhill to return to ECML at Waverley. Which just seems complicated!
Filling in and converting to footpath would allow access from Abbey Lane (and on to Holyrood park), under London Road and then on north to Lochend as the bridge across existing railway still remains. From there it's a short distance to join on with the Seafield / Pirniefield / East Leith path.
If the Powderhall compactor were to be relocated to a more sensible location, access down the railway line could be completed down to the old Bonnington level crossing to join on the North Path Network. Which would be great as it would give much improved off road access to town avoiding Dublin Street / Mound (which are now the property of TIE to turn into white van / car parks at whim.)
Posted 12 years ago # -
I just live round the corner from the works on Abbey Lane. I think it is a work site for some major-ish work they are doing on the rail bridge over abbey Mount which starts this weekend and for the next five (I think) weeks
Posted 12 years ago # -
Had a look through the gate this afternoon with my son. The diggers have 'Network Rail' logos so it is definitely work on railway stuff...
Posted 12 years ago # -
According to The Broughton Spurtle and Network Rail, they are constructing a turnback sidings for the Edinburgh to Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP).
This will allow them to increase the throughput of trains at Waverley by providing somewhere for the trains to wait inbetween runs. Currently they have to wait at the platforms at west end of Waverley, blocking the platforms and restricting capacity.
plans here (Network Rail PDF)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Interesting - thanks for that.
On a related note, when the Trams were breifly going to only go to Haymarket there was talk of having to add a turning loop.
Why can't a tram just run in the reverse direction? I read somewhere (possibly on a lengthy ed.general/uk.railways thread) that this is because there is some rule about not being allowed to have a train/tram sitting with no driver aboard if it is sitting on a gradient. I.e. the driver would not be able to get out of one end of the tram and walk to the other.
Anyone know?Posted 12 years ago # -
The turning loop was specifically to allow trams to make U-turns :)
Chdot told me the same though, that you couldn't leave tram on a slope to change cabs in case brake failed and it ran away.
Surely chocks would be cheaper, or even employing a man to sit in cab at one end while driver walked to cab at other end. But then again this is the Edinburgh Trams we're talking about and they need multi-million pound engineering solutions to everything.
Posted 12 years ago # -
As above except that "turning loop" was likely to have been a "turnback" somewhere flat on way to Shandwick Place.
Thing to remember is that steel wheels on rails can roll (away) with a much shallower incline than rubber on tarmac.
For York Place there will have to be some sort of buffers ON the road!!
NOT yet designed...
Posted 12 years ago # -
So it's not going up one side of St Andrew's Sq and back by the other (i.e. an actual loop)?
Posted 12 years ago # -
No
Posted 12 years ago # -
Oh well, bang goes any hope of a cycle path going under London Road. :-(
(EDIT - Then again, if the powers that be can be persuaded to reopen Abbeyhill Station that would be a great compensation for the East and North of Edinburgh).I was parking my bike at Waverley on Saturday and noted that tracks have been lifted adjacent to Platform 3 (North Berwick line) and diggers were nearby where the tracks used to be (Platform 4?). Presumably they're upgrading this platform and track too while they're at it?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Can someone draw me a simple map of where the trams aere turning round??? I've been on the Nottingham tram which doesn't have a turnaround, it just reverses... I'm struggling to see how/why a tram at St Andrew Sq would go all the way out to Lochend to turn around????? I'm off back to reread the last few posts.
EDIT, right no probs turning would have been somewhere round the already giratory which is Morrinson St/Haymarket Nick.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Shame about the missing route from Leith Links to Holyrood park...
Posted 12 years ago # -
@DaveC yes you're right, the trains will use a turnback at Lochend / Abbeyhill and the trams will use some sort of turnback on York Place. Of course nobody has worked out what that looks like just now because it was never meant to terminate here.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Why they need a turn round I don't know. Just go the opp way? They just need on of those 'chicane' thingys we had on the scalelectrix.
Posted 12 years ago #
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