CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

the potential damage

(26 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by wingpig
  • Latest reply from Instography
  • This topic is resolved

  1. wingpig
    Member

    After a little intermittent non-smoothness, I'm now getting a pronounced grinding noise out of my handlebars...

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    For some reason it's worse when turning right. I assume this is due to headset bearings disintegrating in some sort of unpleasant way but has anyone any prior experience with this sort of unpleasant noise, particularly with the sort (and whatever size it might be) of headset found in an EBC cheapo racer from 2006? What's the likely cost of a new headset (inc. labour)?

    The fork's not been looking particularly happy for a while so I intend to get that replaced at the same time. Is a replacement front fork (preferably steel, not carbon, preferably with mudguard/rack lugs, with modern 6/8mm caliper drillings) the sort of thing one might find in the Bike Station's parts sales?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Roibeard
    Member

    If it's just bearings, you may be able to replace these on their own, but worn bearings can damage their races requiring other bits to be replaced.

    Insert generic Sheldon Brown link here!

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/headsets.html

    Far be it for me to hinder your upgrade replacement plans though!

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. Instography
    Member

    It sounds bone dry in there, like there's no grease at all in it. It would be worth opening it up to have a look at it. Various headsets on Wiggle for between £10 and £150 but about £25 seems usual and maybe half an hour to an hour to fit it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. Nelly
    Member

    wingpig, I recently had a 1 inch headset and a bottom bracket replaced at TBW, total for parts and labour just under £60.

    I think the headset cost was £19.99, but cant remember the labour breakdown.

    Imagine other decent repair shops will be similarly priced.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. Stepdoh
    Member

    My 'rescued from under a tarp in someone's garden' bike frame was really rough around the headset but undoing, a good clean, a £2 bearing from TBW and some lithium grease and it was perfect again.

    Not even any indexing. YMMV though :)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. wingpig
    Member

    I didn't have time last night to undo anything so tried to squidge some grease in through the gap between fork and headset, which mitigated the audible rumbling.

    At what stage is a headset press required in fiddling around with headsets? Just for the pressing-the-lower-race-onto-the-forks bit, if replacing the bottom bit of the headset or the entire headset or fork?

    I shall re-order the order in which I was going to do things and poke at it this evening, hopefully not losing any bearings or discovering that everything was being held together through corrosion-glue. I imagine measuring the steerer at the same time would then be useful when looking for replacement forks.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It sounds like when you open it up you will find a soup of badly damaged races, crushed ball bearings and rust - bound by a thin layer of perished grease.

    Bike Station have a headset remover, press, crown race setter and headtube reamer. That they have let me use before. They weren't on their official list of tools to hand out, but I asked for it by name and told the man behind the desk what it was for (he hadn't heard of one) and generally pretended I knew what I was doing (I did, but only from reading a book and looking at youtube clips) so they were happy to let me use it to get rid of me I think.

    You probably won't need the reamer. Be gentle removing the old crown race though or you might end up needing it.
    Race setter needed for making sure new crown race sitting level.
    Press needed for when it comes to installing top and bottom cups (both at same time, presses down the top one and up on the bottom one)
    You can get the old cups out (carefully) using a large flat-head screwdriver or a very solid piece of dowelling and tapping gently upwards on it, moving the point of impact round with every hit so as it comes out straight and true. Or you can get a special tool to do it.

    You have to buy a whole headset anyway, so it's not worth just replacing the top or bottom bit, just do the full lot.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. wingpig
    Member

    Hmm. Toothpaste is difficult to get back into the tube. How much do I need to undo at the top to get at the top of the steerer in order to be able to measure its diameter with my LIDL digital calliper in order to be certain that I'm looking for the right size of replacement fork (without disturbing the moving parts further down until I have to)? Just the stem?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Well it's either 1" or 1 1/8"... If it's Aheadset, it's very unlikely to be 1".

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. wingpig
    Member

    Back when I bought it I think it was referred to as Aheadset but hopefully in Aheadset's capacity as a partially-genericised ™ rather than a specific type of threadless thing. It's definitely not a threaded/quill as I had to find a stem extender for it shortly after buying it to make it rideable.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. steveo
    Member

    Ahead has the top of the fork sticking out the frame and the stem clamps to it the quill type the stem is one piece that runs into the fork inside the frame. Ahead is threadless... I think.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/workshop-how-to-service-a-headset-22225/

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Ahead = threadless = correct. And from your video of riding no hands in the rain, yes it's generic Ahead-type stem requiring generic ahead-type threadless headset.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. wingpig
    Member

    ...and will therefore almost certainly be (1+(½*¼))", so the length of steerer is the only consideration if buying secondhand. Jolly good.

    (One-handed. Even when not holding an expensive camera my bike doesn't steer by itself very well (probably also due to rubbish lightweight fork and extended stem raiser thing).)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Ahead is threadless... I think

    'Aheadset' was originally the name coined by DiaCompe, who first made the system widely available.

    Well it's either 1" or 1 1/8"... If it's Aheadset, it's very unlikely to be 1".

    Not impossible, but yes, very unlikely. I always thought it was easy to look at a headtube and straight away know what size it was.

    Wingpig, that headset sounded absolutely awful. As well as having run out of grease in the lower race, if it had been a threaded steerer you could've been lucky enough to also have your keyed washer under the locknut turned around and around and wrecked about 4mm of the thread.

    Is it a steel or aluminium frame? Either your lower headset cup is manky, or your headtube is rusting at the interface.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. splitshift
    Member

    many years ago,..... i damaged a rigid front fork in a crash, so, quickly removed, threw away and replaced, new bearings, etc. all was well, slight, very slight grinding noise every now and again. Until ! traversing the dukes path in the trossachs, the steering went all funny,and i fell off ! Miss matched/fitted /lubed bearings had actually CUT the fork upper tube ( bit that goes into the bike frame )so it fell out !Spent a wee bit more time rebuilding the next time !

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. wingpig
    Member

    Noticeable indexing when steering at low speeds at the moment. Bike Station had nothing unthreaded or non-MTB, TBW would order in, but this would be a wee bit cheaper and has luggage bosses and would solve my current rearward-weight-weighting gripes... any views about the item?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I thought the headset was the problem, not the fork?

    But if you are looking to replace the fork too (you'll still need to do the headset) then that's a handsome one and has all the right bosses. I've had no problems with SJS cycles, good service, prompt delivery.

    Worth checking rake of current fork incase it is something terribly different from the new one - the steel ones in that style bend quite far forwards (chdot once explained that's why they are good, as the "bow" of the fork allows it to flex).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "chdot once explained that's why they are good, as the "bow" of the fork allows it to flex"

    Sort of - though I was specifically talking about nice tapered 531 forks and that I never understood the fashion for straight forks which have much less 'natural suspension' - which in turn (partly) led to heavy suspension forks on cheap bikes!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. wingpig
    Member

    Problem is with headset, but fork is cheap aluminium/allegedcarbon which deals badly with cobbobles and has looking a bit dodgy at the back for a while (photo coming soon) but has been waiting for a suitable opportunity to be replaced. Greater rake than at present would be welcome as it'd mean more room for mudguards and a similarer wheelbase to oldbike.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. wingpig
    Member


    More repair than upgrade.

    Fitting a nice new headset to a manky old fork doesn't seem worthwhile.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. Instography
    Member

    That does look bad. The red bit above it isn't looking too hot. I noticed the wrinkly paint on the video too.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. wingpig
    Member

    BAGH. Embed code #fail.

    Admin intervention.

    You only need to post URL

    http://www.youtube.com/v/Kg5JB5JDVKs

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. wingpig
    Member

    I left it like that as I was going to come back and fix it from a different platform. Managed to get the one at the top embedded, though can't remember how...

    Apparently there was some swearing whilst some of the old bits were coming out. Old headset disappointingly thrown away without asking so I can't see how worn it was. I thought the old brake would have just enough reach but was going to get a new one anyway but was told the old one didn't have the drop.
    I can now get a full-length front mudguard.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Instography
    Member

    What's that noise?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. wingpig
    Member

    That loud clicking? It had me worried for a moment but it's the gear cable skipping over the brake cable inline tensioner thing.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    Phew. Sounded nearly as bad.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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