CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Better bike provision by 'new' ScotRail

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    I've been reminded that it's coming up to Franchise time -

    "
    I think the key is to get the new ScotRail franchise holder to make better provision. As new franchise is due to commence in 2014, and Transport Scotland have previously said that they might commence consultation as early as this summer, it's not too early for folk to commence formulating their demands.
    "

    ALSO

    "
    The other thing is EGIP -- which will necessitate a whole new fleet of (electric) trains. EGIP is being consulted on at the moment -- so ditto.

    "

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    In the olden days you could have just towed a wagon behind for the bikes. That's not really possible with multiple units.

    I have previously dreamed up a bike storage solution for the likes of West Highland / Far North lines in which a short carriage is marshalled in between the consist, maintaining the corridor and cabling connections while providing storage for many bicycles. It would have a very large door (like guard's vans did in olden days) and could take tandem-sized bikes. It could also store extra luggage that is often carried on these "holiday" lines, provision for which is always lacking. In the olden days you could also have stowed extra luggage in guard's or dedicated luggage van.

    One of the arguments for multiple units is their "flexibility". One of their greatest shortcomings is their complete and utter lack of flexibility when it comes to interior layout and fitting.

    Existing racks could be left in place for when the train was running without a bike wagon...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. Smudge
    Member

    Clearly on the trains I travel on (Edin Glasgow "flagship"(sic) route mainly) there is inadequate, or at best barely adequate storage for pushchairs, buggies, luggage and bicycles.

    This is compounded by a scheduling system which has no slack and leaves them struggling with overloaded 3 car trains as soon as any problem appears.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. DaveC
    Member

    Top tip, the Fife circle running clockwise leaving platform 2 Edin Waverly, at 17.08 each day is one of those old EWS trains with the old spring carrages and a proper guards waggon attached.

    I have also taken a train anticlockwise around 7pm which has the old sprinter trains with a large space at the rear with space for 6 cycles parked diagonally.

    If anyone else know of any cycle friendly trains please add to the list.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. crowriver
    Member

    Ah yes, but in the olden days trains were not just run to make a financial profit, rather (at least under nationalisation) they were seen as an essential service.

    Airline seats + less luggage (cycle) space = more passengers per train = profit

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Morningsider
    Member

    chdot - If only it were so simple. All passenger trains in the UK are owned by one of three rolling stock leasing companies (ROSCOs). At any one time almost every train in the UK is leased to a train operator. Given the long term nature of these contracts, the chance of a substantial number of ScotRail trains coming off lease at the same time as suitable replacements from elsewhere becoming available is very slim, i.e. we are stuck with the rolling stock we have.

    In addition, the ScotRail franchise contract is currently drafted in such detail that the type and minimum length of train to be used on each service is set out in black and white, meaning the franchise holder has almost no leeway to allocate other rolling stock. I suppose this could be changed in the new franchise - but the problem is that allowing a private sector train operator leeway in allocating rolling stock is likely to result in a worse rather than better service.

    I think what is needed is for the franchise to specifically set out a bike friendly policy for the eventual franchise holder - requiring "flexibility" in carrying bikes and explicitly ruling out charging for bike carriage. A commitment to increase on-train bike storage as and when possible should also be included.

    EGIP is an opportunity - almost certain to be some variant of the Siemens Desiro I would have thought (see new North Berwick rolling stock for an example), but internal layout of the trains will still be up for grabs.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. PS
    Member

    Any items of franchise specification that will be a good news story whilst also being easy to do and not costing much will go down well with Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government, so the more they hear from people that these facilities will be popular, the better.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    From the website;


    How will the Class 380s cater for cyclists?

    A designated space for two cycles is provided within each four or three carriage train. These should be used first. In addition, and at the discretion of on-train staff, one cycles can also be stored in each vestibule, as per the current arrangements for electric trains in Strathclyde. However, bikes cannot be taken through gangways.

    On North Berwick-Edinburgh services, four carriage trains have eight vestibules in addition to two designated cycle spaces. We’ve tried to strike the right balance. To provide the same level of secured cycle provision as currently exists with the Class 322s would reduce the number of seats available for passengers by more than 100 across the entire fleet. We do not believe this is fair, or best use of public sector funding.

    When storing cycles in vestibules, customers are asked to observe the following guidelines:

    •Place cycles on the right hand side of the train (facing direction of travel) as there are generally fewer platforms on this side
    •Stay with or near to your bike at all times
    •Check regularly to ensure it is not causing an obstruction, especially on the approach to stations
    Are the designated cycle spaces shared with any other users?

    The modular cycle stowage design is deliberately separate from the wheelchair accommodation. Drop down seats are fitted so that, if the cycle storage is not being used, more passengers can be seated.

    What do cyclists do if the tip-up seats are already taken when they board?

    We have clear labelling above the tip-up seats indicating that this is a priority area for cycles. Our overall aim is for a flexible area that can be used for other purposes when not required by cyclists, eg, tip-up seats with a clear floor areas where a child’s buggy could stand. We’ve avoided using wheel guides to keep the floor area clear and free of tipping hazards. Overhead racks have also been avoided for similar safety reasons.

    Where is the cycle storage located on a Class 380?

    It is always at the inner end of a driving coach.

    What if the train is really busy?

    Train staff may not be able to accept additional cycles if the train becomes busy and the vestibules are full. However, customers with cycles already on board will be allowed to remain.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. alibali
    Member

    I was selected, partly because I had a bike with me (but mostly because I didn't say "no" like most folk did..) for a Passenger Focus survey at Haymarket the other day which I duly filled in and returned.

    I complained about the cycle-specific issues of random provision and inconsistent administration of cycle space and cycle hostile ticket checks (especially at Haymarket) as well as the more general issue of reliability.

    I gave a 3/4 for the new lifts at Haymarket (because P1/0 still doesn't have one) and welcomed the bike park as an improvement too.

    Done more in a spirit of public duty than any real hope of change though...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. cb
    Member

    Is the vestibule area larger on a 380 compared to a 322?

    If yes, is that essesntially why Scotrail are happy to allow cycles in the vestibule?

    If no, what are the chances that Scotrail might allow cycles in the vestibule of every train?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. gembo
    Member

    cb - vestibule cycle storage - is it not already possible at discretion of train staff?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Railway stations to improve access with £9.5m funding

    Five Scottish railway stations are to share £9.5m to improve accessibility.

    Work will be carried out at the Dyce, Shotts, Newton, Rosyth and Dunblane stations to improve facilities for disabled people and others with impaired mobility, such as people with prams.

    This also means bikes too!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    This also means bikes too!

    Depends. If they install lifts rather than ramps, these are often too small to get a bike into. The one at Dundee station is a case in point. All cyclists just carry their bikes up and down the stairs :-(

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    ah yes. I should re-phrase that "This should also mean bikes too"

    Posted 12 years ago #

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