CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

CCE Members' attitudes (2) RLJing

(59 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from chdot
  • poll: Red Light Jumping
    RLJing is foolish : (27 votes)
    30 %
    RLJing is OK if you're careful : (2 votes)
    2 %
    RLJing is wrong because it makes things worse for other cyclists : (26 votes)
    29 %
    RLJing through pedestrian phases should be legal : (2 votes)
    2 %
    Sometimes I get off and push : (14 votes)
    15 %
    I would get off and push if I knew it was legal : (0 votes)
    I usually go on Amber : (9 votes)
    10 %
    I always wait for Green : (11 votes)
    12 %

    36 votes

No tags yet.


12

  1. Cyclepathic
    Member

    @Nelly
    Yeah you're totally right we are all road users but different vehicles have different rules that apply to them. As a cyclist you are far more aware of your surroundings and take up less road space so a bike nipping through an empty pedestrian crossing doesn't cause any danger to anybody. Also in some countries you have the right on red rule (it would be left on red over here) but that can also make a lot of sense. IMO there is too much street furniture and getting rid of some traffic lights or replacing pelican crossings with zebra crossings could be a good thing and might make people concentrate more when out on the queens highway.
    I've never even come close to hitting or being hit whilst nipping through a red and that's because I'm very careful when I do it and if there's any doubt I stop.

    As far as annoying other road users go that's par for the course no matter how polite you are someones just gonna be p!55£d off because you'r on a bike and are going slower than them. I get annoyed by other road users all the time but I try to just keep calm and carry on.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. Instography
    Member

    Then in the interests of fairness, all road users, including cars, buses and lorries, should be entitled to nip through red lights so long as they're careful.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. Cyclepathic
    Member

    In the interests of fairness cyclist should be given equal space on the road but that doesn't happen. The world is not a fair place and to me the whole point of cycling in town is that I can jump the odd SAFE red light if I think it's safe to do so,I can also instantly become a pedestrian and if that annoys people then that's their problem not mine.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. Instography
    Member

    Well, yes, that's precisely my point - if you should be left to decide which lights are safe to jump (sorry, SAFE to jump), why can't everyone? I get so bored and frustrated waiting for those few minutes at lights in my car and I'm sure if I was careful I could jump a few of them, especially pedestrian crossings. And if we should ever meet while you're jumping yours and I'm jumping mine I'm sure it will only confirm the inherent unfairness of the world that one of us got it wrong this time.

    Bon chance!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. Cyclepathic
    Member

    " (sorry, SAFE to jump)" Hey I don't want to get into a mud slinging fight here. I'm only offering a different point of view that you may not agree with....sorry.

    The main point of my discussion is that I reckon we could do without a lot of traffic lights and signage in this city and in this country in general. But I guess you guys aren't ready for that kind of modern free thinking eh? ( I'm joking I'm joking sorry sorry!!)

    But think about it. Everyones pointing the finger at each other when we could be working together in perfect harmony just like paul and stevie told us about all those years ago.
    May your god go with you xx

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. LaidBack
    Member

    The main point of my discussion is that I reckon we could do without a lot of traffic lights and signage in this city

    Some parts of town near the castle already exercise a default 'shared road / make own judgement' philosophy. It's a kind of slow moving mix of tour buses, gift shop owners Ferraris, taxis and pedestrians taking pictures. Add in cycle rickshaws too. Red lights at the top of the Mound seem widely ignored too even though police are around.

    I think sometimes they would be better switching off the lights there as traffic is parked over them most of time...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator


    Keep on Jumping by kaputniq, on Flickr

    Just a thought I had...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. Cyclepathic
    Member

    Hey that's very good . I like what you've done there.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    This: "The main point of my discussion is that I reckon we could do without a lot of traffic lights and signage in this city and in this country in general. is a fair point (and one I agree wholeheartedly with), but I'm not sure how that ties in with it being okay to jump the lights that are there?

    Instography's point/query is still germane to the discussion. If we jump lights when we deem it to be safe then we have no moral high ground to take whatsoever with a driver who passes to closely, speaks on his mobile, jumps a red, breaks the speed limit when he deems that to be safe to do.

    The further point is that judging when it is safe is exactly that, a judgement call. An opinion. And as this forum, and thread, is evidence of, opinions differ. In text that's fine, in reality if your opinion is that jumping that light is fine, but the pedestrian's view is that jumping the light isn't fine, and he steps out in front of the RLJing cyclist. That difference in opinions has brought about a very physical result.

    When it comes down to it I personally don't believe that breaking the law in this instance is justifiable - if you want to be able to jump lights, or remove lights and signs, then campaign for that - lobby your councillor, MSP and MP. Breaking the law 'aint gonna bring about that change in the law.

    "I've never even come close to hitting or being hit whilst nipping through a red and that's because I'm very careful when I do it and if there's any doubt I stop"

    Which is presuming everyone is as strong in exercising discretion and safety as you are...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    One thing I'd like to lobby the Council to do is to give in to all of the EEN motoring commenters for one week. Allow parking wherever people choose; raise all city speed limits; allow driving in the bus lanes and down Princes Street....

    See the city clog up in utter mayhem for a week. Simply prove the nutters wrong.

    Conversely (taking Cyclepathic's point), I think it would be interesting to have all the traffic lights turned off (retaining the right of pedestrians to hit a button to stop traffic - and to do so immediately) and see how traffic flowed. Is Edinburgh 'friendly' enough that this would work for motorised traffic? I've driven in various place where, while busy, there has been a certain 'etiquette' observed (Turin for example, hideously cramped with too many cars on the road, but... it moved...).

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    "I think it would be interesting to have all the traffic lights turned off (retaining the right of pedestrians to hit a button to stop traffic"

    Well there are places where lights are turned off at night - or left on Amber (possibly flashing). There is no good reason (??) why many ped crossings couldn't be green for walkers/cyclers until a car approached - short green phase for motor traffic..

    Should be trialled at MMW/Melville Drive!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. Tulyar
    Member

    Reminded of Signal Snooker (as played by train drivers) you always get a red before you can get a colour.

    I'd play the roulette detail - Gamble on (the) red, Odds on you're dead

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    "Turin for example, hideously cramped with too many cars on the road, but... it moved..."

    Isn't that where the first Italian Job was filmed - with traffic light 'experiment'?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. Tulyar
    Member

    The colours of high stakes gambling - red and black

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    It was indeed - though the lights were being switching between all three colours or both on red or both on green.

    We were actually on an Italian Job Rally (gaggle of Minis new and old, rallying around northern Italy, then through France to Brighton). We had to navigate our way into the centre of Turin, then got a police escort to the hotel - which just happens to be an old Fiat factory, the very one with the rooftop test track used in the movie, which we got to drive on.

    *thread hijack*

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Well there are places where lights are turned off at night - or left on Amber (possibly flashing)."

    They certainly do that in many (most?) places in France. Makes perfect sense at night.

    And yes, I honestly believe that pedestrians should have priority at crossing points, not have to wait for motorised (and bike) traffic to cede that priority.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. Min
    Member

    "Is Edinburgh 'friendly' enough that this would work for motorised traffic?"

    No it isn't. Have you ever tried to cross at any zebra crossings in Edinburgh? If the first driver doesn't stop, none of them do. You have to just wait until the road is clear.

    I think switching traffic lights off is a terrible idea. Leaving pedestrians, cyclists and motorists to "sort it out". Who is going to "win" do we think? PLus there would be even more junctions where drivers will pull out in front of you because you don't have the lights to stop them.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "though the lights were being switching between all three colours or both on red or both on green"

    'Apparently' some of the traffic jam was real as residents weren't told about the filming in advance...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. steveo
    Member

    "Is Edinburgh 'friendly' enough that this would work for motorised traffic?"

    I think i'm with Min on this, if do get the council to let the inmates run the asylum let me know in advance so i can take the car that day. If i'm going to be hit by a nutter i'd rather be in my cage...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    @Min, @Steveo

    One of the things I've noticed when lights are not working for whatever reason, is that drivers actually slow down approaching them and look before going. It's bizarre, they seem to treat these junctions more carefully than those which don't have any lights at all.

    Of course that probably doesn't mean any attitudes towards cyclists would be changed, but it does actually (in my experience) reduce people putting the foot down to make sure they get through lights/get to the junction before a cyclist even if the light is red.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. Instography
    Member

    Even if the lights were off and pedestrians were given the right to stop traffic, how would that change things for RLJing cyclists? Is there any reason to think they'd become more respectful of the lights? Wouldn't they still feel justified in going through (being careful, of course), perhaps waiting for the solitary pedestrian to cross or maybe just weaving through.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. Min
    Member

    I find trying to negotiate a junction when the lights are out terrifying. They might be going slower but it doesn't mean they aren't going to run you down and it means you have to look in all directions because they could be coming at you from anywhere not just from behind or in front.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. Nelly
    Member

    Or - switch the lights off at peak times, thereby snarling up the junctions, and cycling/walking will be the only viable option - hurrah!!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. Instography
    Member

    They slow down because without the lights there is no established priority. At other non-light junctions, give way lines and stop signs indicate who has priority and, on the whole, drivers do actually cede priority. When the lights fail no one knows what to do. There are no markings to say who has priority.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. Tulyar
    Member

    Reminded of Signal Snooker (as played by train drivers) you always get a red before you can get a colour.

    I'd play the roulette detail - Gamble on (the) red, Odds on you're dead

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. Cyclepathic
    Member

    Heh heh!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  27. thebikechain
    Member

    I went with option 1. Pretty strict on this. I don't do it in a car so i see no reason why i should do it on a bike.

    On the road i am traffic. I obey the code. innit. (Well brought up you see ;-))

    Posted 13 years ago #

  28. cb
    Member

    I never picked 'usually go on amber', but I think, on reflection, that this is something I do more than I think. Found myself doing so today at Cameron Toll, heading south. I was able to get through the narrow bit under the bridge before the taxi behind caught up.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Of course that would depend on the council keeping the ASL boxes maintained.

    Which it may or may not agree to do after the November transport committee.

    "

    Apparently this report has been postponed to February!

    Posted 13 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

12

Reply

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin