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CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".

IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

8161. miak
      Member

      Couple of classics this evening but i need to ask... Are Rabbies and other tour buses permitted to turn into Queensferry street from princes street heading north west. It says no right turn except for buses, taxis and cycles. Normally the buses refers only to public service vehicles not private coaches? Can any one help here?

      The other was nearly being taken out by a Czech tour bus that clearly thought approaching me at 40mph in a 30 limit then honking me to get out his way as i took primary at a traffic island was ok. what made me swear was some random punter walking by who shouted at me to demand what i was doing as the bus tried to run into me...video to come when i calm down..

      Posted 6 years ago #

8162. neddie
      Member

      White Mercedes Benz coupe SN17UDX absolutely tearing along Gilmore Pl eastbound around 5-30pm. In excess of 40mph.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8163. Greenroofer
      Member

      @ragingbike - unless there's the word 'Local' in the sign, any vehicle with more than 9 passenger seats can go where it says 'buses only'. This is useful if you own an older long-wheelbase Landrover station wagon, as these had a nominal seating capacity of 12.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8164. Arellcat
      Moderator

      Insane overtaking manoeuvre from a red Mitsubishi on the A703 this evening. The driver crossed the solid white line and overtook me (while I was doing 23mph or so in primary) when I was five seconds from the blind left-hand bend before Seafield Mill.

      I will* be sending Police Scotland the video.

      * Probably**. They didn't return my nice 4GB USB stick last time.
      ** I've submitted a report to 101 at least. We'll see if anything further transpires.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8165. wishicouldgofaster
      Member

      Cycling through Stockbridge this morning and I saw a guy reading while driving a Range Rover. The traffic was going at a crawl but honestly WTF! I found myself hoping he would do a slow bash into the car in front.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8166. wingpig
      Member

      Stupid overtakes from a series of idiots on Starbank Road this morning, culminating in a white rangerovery thing nearly hitting the oncoming traffic. As he then had to slow for the traffic queueing at the lights, I thought it best to point out his error. Fortunately, his passenger window was open so that his dog could clearly hear.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8167. miak
      Member

      @greenroofer my understanding was that private hire coaches, minibuses and private hire cars aren't permitted to use the bus lanes http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20016/roads_travel_and_parking/280/bus_lane_notices

      therefore it would seem that a no right turn would apply to the same vehicles....

      Posted 6 years ago #

8168. I were right about that saddle
      Member

      There was a cycle path at the side of road, but it was not well maintained and he used the road instead.

      Again and again and again.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8169. ejstubbs
      Member

      @iwrats: Apparently the jury agreed unanimously that driving with the windscreen obscured wasn't dangerous.

      One of the definitions of dangerous driving is: "it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state ... would be dangerous". Presumably this requires the jury to assess themselves as competent and careful drivers (which nearly everyone does anyway, despite copious evidence to the contrary), and, having done that, they don't feel that it is dangerous to be in too much of hurry to clear the condensation off your windscreen before setting off. Words begin to fail me.

      @ragingbike: That's the junction where a Rabbies tour bus killed Zhi Min Soh. I would have thought that it would have been mentioned at the time if the bus hadn't even been allowed to be there. (AFAIK we're still waiting for an official account of what actually happened in that incident.)

      Posted 6 years ago #

8170. Murun Buchstansangur
      Member

      Disgusting that the fact the other cyclist wasn't using a substandard, untreated, unlit 150m-long (before you have to rejoin the same road) cycle path was even raised in court.

      Bad enough that he had to witness basically the manslaughter of a cyclist due to the negligent actions of David Gordon.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8171. mgj
      Member

      I nearly went over the bonnet of a car this morning, and merely hit the side of it with my handlebars, leaving a nice dented memento for the driver to remind him that he cant see through vans turning into the street he was coming out of.

      Black golf estate car, driven by a young man coming out of Watson Crescent as I was coming down Yeoman Place. He kept coming out despite his view being obscured. I think I must have anticipated as I was braking before I shouted at him. Nearly over bars as front brake caught harder and my bar ends scraped his front wing. At least he apologised for his SMIDSY; well of course you couldnt see me; there was a van in the way, you stupid, impatient twunt.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8172. chdot
      Admin

      “

      When the jury returned their verdict it was revealed that Gordon had previous road traffic offences, including two for speeding.

      Judge, Lord Menzies, deferred sentence on Gordon until October 12 for reports, disqualified him from driving and ordered him to hand in any driving licence he had to Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court.

      “

      https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/driver-guilty-of-causing-cyclist-s-death-1-4799242

      Posted 6 years ago #

8173. gembo
      Member

      As we often say Drivers almost always get off the more serious charge when they kill cyclists with their dangerous driving. As we are starting to name - beacuse juries, judges, lawyers, reporters are all dangerous drivers themselves?

      Posted 6 years ago #

8174. miak
      Member

      @gembo i think most non-cyclists just dont get it. Ive seen JPs, police and sheriffs totally ignorant of the rights of cyclists, the proper conduct of cyclists and the RTA. These are people who are meant to be versed in the law. Ive had huge arguments with cycle friendly friends when as a passenger ive suggested they might have left more room having passed a cyclist. i think it would be mandatory before getting a driving licence for drivers to pass a road based cycling test. Ironically the government may say its too dangerous..

      Posted 6 years ago #

8175. Greenroofer
      Member

      @Ragingbike - re the 'bus' question, here's the best thing I can find with a quick Google: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/22/made

      No doubt Morningsider will be along shortly to point out the correct Scottish version (assuming road signs are a devolved matter).

      This doesn't conflict with the Edinburgh Council page you link to, it's just that the Edinburgh page leaves out a few categories of vehicles that are also eligible to use the bus lane (including PHCs with more than 9 seats, for example). The Edinburgh page is the truth, it's just not the whole truth.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8176. miak
      Member

      @greenroofer my understanding is private hire cars and private hire coaches are NOT allowed to use bus/taxi lanes in edinburgh as the by laws restrict them to use solely for public service vehicles, not tour and private coaches. It would be good to get a clear definition of this as the approach to shandwick place is for buses (PSVs) only which means any Rabbies coach should not have been on that road.

      But for turning right onto queensferry street from princes street, your link suggests any bus with over 9 seats can do it...but the by laws seem to indicate only PSVs should be there.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8177. Greenroofer
      Member

      @Ragingbike Transport(Scotland) Act 2001, Section 44 (3) and (4) apply, I reckon.

      The only thing I can't find, and which is key, is the TRO that the council used to establish the bus lanes, just in case they specifically exclude any other type of vehicle. However the wording of the act here is quite clear to me: the TRO (of whatever kind) creates a bus lane when it allows it to be used by buses (and perhaps another kind of vehicle), so I doubt that any TRO will be able to change that. The law doesn't say they can exclude classes of vehicles in their TRO.

      I still reckon that any vehicle with over 8 passenger seats is allowed to use the bus lane. This will include private coaches and PHCs with more than 8 passenger seats. PHCs with fewer than 8 seats aren't allowed to use them. The Edinburgh page lists vehicles that can use them that have fewer than 8 passenger seats (emergency vehicles, taxis and the like), and these would fit into the legal definition of "some other class or classes of traffic specified in the order."

      Posted 6 years ago #

8178. Frenchy
      Member

      Since there are places in Edinburgh (West Maitland Street is one) where the signage explicitly says only "local buses" are allowed, I assume that in other places, all buses are allowed.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8179. chdot
      Admin

      “
      Sister of hit-and-run victim calls for law change

      Amy O'Connor's brother Andrew Lindup, 36, was killed in a hit-and-run crash in London.

      Driver Daroush Fayaz, was arrested 15 days later but lack of evidence meant he was only charged with failing to stop and not death by dangerous driving.

      “

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-hereford-worcester-45513332/sister-of-hit-and-run-victim-calls-for-law-change

      Posted 6 years ago #

8180. dougal
      Member

      Yellow double decker bus outside Linlithgow this morning, presumed trainee driver, went for a stupid overtake on a blind corner then pulled back into me in a hurry. I hit the brakes and veered off the road to avoid being cyclist jam. Didn't get any details whatsoever - "the colour and the shape".

      My only hope is that it was a trainee driver and they get nailed to the wall for that move.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8181. Stickman
      Member

      https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/bus-collides-with-edinburgh-tram-on-shandwick-place-1-4799784

      Posted 6 years ago #

8182. jonty
      Member

      "Traffic is thought to be coping well with the incident."

      Phew.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8183. dougal
      Member

      "One eyewitness told the Evening News the bus was on the tram lines and collided with the side of the tram."

      Is that right aye?

      Posted 6 years ago #

8184. paulmilne
      Member

      "Traffic is thought to be coping well with the incident."

      Considering there is little traffic on Shandwick place apart from buses, taxis and bicycles, this is hardly surprising.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8185. I were right about that saddle
      Member

      The tram, that was heading westbound, collided with the bus as it was going over the tram lines.

      Well yes, that's what trams do. They go over tram lines. They have little choice?

      Posted 6 years ago #

8186. paulmilne
      Member

      Ambiguous "it". I think they mean the bus?

      Posted 6 years ago #

8187. I were right about that saddle
      Member

      So someone drove a bus into an oncoming tram? Do the twelve year olds that write the chipwrapper not go to the School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too?

      Posted 6 years ago #

8188. miak
      Member

      @dougal probably the instructor showing them hows its done

      Posted 6 years ago #

8189. neddie
      Member

      At least they said "the bus collided with..." instead of "the tram collided with..."

      Still managed to absolve the drivers of any involvement though.

      Posted 6 years ago #

8190. ejstubbs
      Member

      @dougal: The bus could have been eastbound, using the eastbound tram track eg to pass a bus standing at another stop, and either swerved to avoid something or misjudged his road position as the westbound tram passed in the opposite direction. In fact judging by the photo, that seems to have been what happened.

      In the absence of any clear information; the statement at the head of the article and the witness statement seem to be at odds. I guess we shall have to wait and see if any better explanation for the collision emerges.

      Posted 6 years ago #

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