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Bad Advice Wanted - New Bike

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  1. Uberuce
    Member

    History thus far:

    1988: My elder sister gets given a Raleigh Record Sprint
    1990: My other sister and I get given the newly popular mountain bikes, and laugh our heads off since racers had just become incredibly uncool.
    1994: My elder sister learns to drive
    1994-2004: Bike stays in garage
    2004: Sister gets whim to commute on bike and has handlebars and tires replaced and general tinkering done.
    One day after getting bike back from service, 2004: Sister decided she can't be bothered.
    May 2011: I discover I've ruined my knees from years in the gym and have to find something else to keep in shape. Decide to cycle instead of take bus.
    May-September 2011: Wonder if I can ask for several thousand pounds in fare money back from LRT and an apology for ever allowing me to demean myself with such a slow and unstylish mode of transport.
    September 2011: Get the n+1 itch. Go to various bike shops in Edinburgh and get sensible advice.

    The aforementioned racer(I'll get round to calling it a road bike one year, I'm sure) is a lovely wee thing for my daily Slateford/Gyle/Morningside commute on dry days, but it's not so comfy for anything longer and the lack of mudguards means I fear the coming wet days. In summer I just went for the hakagure rain method, but that's daft for winter.

    What I *want* is an oldschool awesomesauce Grandpa roadster, and also something with long-distance comfort since I'm now finding Edinburgh a little small when it comes to thinking of trips.

    What I *need* is a sensible modern commuter that's more robust and winterproof, and a sensible modern tourer. This is what the nice men in the shops have been telling me and I can't find a logical bone to pick with them. But that's boring as hell and won't match my tweed and beard.

    So I want bad advice from other people that have actually done the style-over-substance thing and loved it.

    Other bad advice, for example 'when swimming in shark-infested always carry a seal that's just had a tattoo done' will be accepted as well and taken on merit.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "So I want bad advice from other people that have actually done the style-over-substance thing and loved it."

    You've come to the right place...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. steveo
    Member

    Yeah there are apple users and everything here... ;-)

    /derailment

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Surly seem to offer both style and substance. Long Haul Trucker at the heavier/tourer end of the range, Pacer at the lighter/racer end, Crosscheck some place in between.

    Can be made to look very nice and stylish and still be practical with guards, rack, potential Brooks saddle, your choice of bar tape / cable outers.

    I've built my last 2 bikes to own specifications from bits and bobs of old/new/second hand/swapped/inherited/bought and absolutely love them both. The single speed has definitely been style over substance as I abandoned a perfectly functional big-manufacturer aluminium frame to rebuild it onto a old second-hand Reynolds frame that I had stripped and sprayed. I like to think my audax bike has both. It has certainly gone far and wide, is super comfy and a practical commuter and a winter road club bike and more...

    I think it's quite possible to get style (which of course is subjective) and substance if you build/specify the bike to your own wants and needs. It's pretty cool-bubble-bursting to be sitting at the lights on your cool new bike, when someone pulls up next to you on the same "cool" new bike.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. thebikechain
    Member

    Sounds like you might want a Salsa Casseroll.
    I have one on order to replace my Surly Cross Check.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. Nelly
    Member

    +1 kaputnik.

    @Uberuce, You sound like you want unique / unusual - which probably points to either building yourself, or (if you lack some skills) doing simple stuff yourself, and getting your LBS to do the rest.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I have seen one Salsa around Edinburgh, ever. A Vaya I think, in lime green and madder red.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Salsas are looooooooooooooooooovely.

    I saw another Cotic Soul on Sunday morning coming off the John Muir way in Musselburgh. I was devastated.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. SRD
    Moderator

    "So I want bad advice from other people that have actually done the style-over-substance thing and loved it."

    Hmmm...okay, we have some style freaks, but also a lot of practicality/sensibility, especially regarding mudguards!

    I think the two bike approach is really rather the way to go - maybe get one first, and either adapt the old bike to fit which ever you don't get until you can justify the second bike? EG get a splashy road bike and gradually turn the old bike into a more practical commuter? Or, (more sensible?) get a _nice commuter_ and save up for the racer (and thus enjoy the process of planning/building it)?

    For me, a comfortable and practical bike for the commute really would be a priority. It makes such a difference.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. Min
    Member

    "Sounds like you might want a Salsa Casseroll.
    I have one on order to replace my Surly Cross Check. "

    GASP! *faints*

    Uberuce - You Grandpa's Roadster would be absolutely perfect for winterproofness and robustness. They have been carrying peoples Grandpas about for countless decades after all. What it might not be great for is long distance riding as it will be heavy.

    Something like a Surly is great as they have both retro chic and long-distanceability. They do cost a fortune though. If you don't want to lay out that much, some second hand classic tourer type bike?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. Uberuce
    Member

    Building my own would let me tick all the boxes I want ticked, but I'm no-one's idea of a competent and experienced greasemonkey. Or for that matter a competent and experienced cyclist, as the grubbiness I've allowed to build up on the moving parts attests.

    The Surly and Salsa bikes do look like they have a purdy mouth, even if they are making my wallet's jaws hurt - from about £700 I flip from 'fair enough here's the money' to 'do I *really* need that'

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. DaveC
    Member

    Building yoyu're own will be a greta learning experience and allow you to maintsain it afterwards also. You can then (once the knowledge has been gained) upgrade any components if you wish later.

    Getting a good frame to atart on is key I think.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Planet-X Kaffenback...

    Mine is a little over three years old now and is great. Can put on 'guards and a rack if you want. Take them off if you don't. I've done 'guardless sportive and time trial on it; then 'guarded and racked audax; and now it's 'guarded and saddlebagged commuter.

    Can be bought as a built up bike, or frame only, and now has a disc brake option. Even grubby and used I still get comments from people who pull up alongside at the lights on how nice it is. Something about the sand colour gives it a retro feel with the two contrast bands. I originally had a Brooks saddle on and it looked great with that and the matching brown bar tape. I fell out with the Brooks, but have stil kept the retro brown look, amplified by the moustache bars it now sports.

    And the best part? I think frames can still be had for as little as £150 (I got mine, direct from Planet-X, for £99!!!).

    It really is a do-anything good-looking frame. And much much nicer than a boring black Surly... :P

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I'd back DaveC's comments as well. I built my first bike about 6-7 years ago on the back of some fairly sketchy knowledge aided by a book and t'interweb. I learned SO much that the Kaffenback build went a lot smoother, and learned again so that the Cotic X I built earlier this year was a virtual breeze (and t'interweb is still a great source of support and knowledge).

    And you get something truly bespoke to you (okay, so you could get a frame tailored to you as well - I'm basck to seriously considering getting measured for a Mercian next year) with all your little likes and foibles.

    Do it do it do it do it do it!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. Min
    Member

    "And much much nicer than a boring black Surly...:P"

    Them's fightin' words...

    *rolls up sleeves*

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Agree about it being a learning experience. I was similar to anth in that had a vague notion of what bits went where, a book, access to Google and some floorspace and just set to it. I got a new-old-stock steel frame off of ebay and built it up from there.

    If you need bike-specific tools (crank extractors, BB cup tools, chain whips, headset presses) that you aren't willing to shell out for just yet you can always ask nicely to arrange to borrow / swap one through here or the Bike Station has ones you can use if you hire a workstand.

    If/when you get stuck, asking questions here normally gets practical advice and solutions (then off on a tangent about trams and if it's BL Beige or Saharan Latte) or there are a number of more sympathetic bikeshops around who are happy to help if you go in looking sheepish and admit defeat!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Them's fightin' words...

    *rolls up sleeves*

    "

    Coffees at dawn??

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. crowriver
    Member

    My advice would be gentle steps, leading to building your own bike once you have the confidence. So I'm going for the practicality first.

    Start with customising that old racer. There's no reason it can't make a decent commuter, it's a 501 CrMo frame which is plenty sturdy enough. I'm assuming it has the old style single pivot caliper brakes, so it might have enough clearance for a pair of mudguards. If it doesn't have mudguard eyelets you can use P-clips. Fitting mudguards will turn it into an all-weather bike (except possibly snow). If there are mudguard eyelets on the rear stays then you could also fit a pannier rack. Fit some puncture proof tyres for your commute: Continental Gatorskins come in skinny racer sizes. If you find the bike less comfy than you want, try adjusting the saddle height/angle or replacing it with a better one. Also worth considering a shorter handlebar stem to give you a more upright riding position, possibly even replacing the drop bars with something else: for example moustache bars will allow you to keep your road brake levers, but give a wider more upright riding position.

    Buy some degreaser and give the bike a good clean, then lubricate cables and chain. Get some tools and service the wheel hub bearings and bottom bracket, or maybe get your local bike shop to do that bit.

    By taking on some of these simple enhancements yourself you'll gain the skills and confidence to take on building up a bike from a frame: whether new or second hand.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. Uberuce
    Member

    Thankee all kindly for your advice.

    I think I'll go with crowriver's plan at first; test the water by tinkering with the racer and if I turn out to be any use then I'll build from frame, but if I turn out to be the equivalent of Homer Simpson trying to make a bowl of cornflakes(they went on fire) then plan B will be buying one of the models suggested above.

    I've been dipping my toe in singlespeed waters by not changing gear for the last three days. That's been dandy, so a conversion for winter might be in order.

    Before all that it's cleaning time....

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Clean, re-grease, re-cable, new brake blocks, new tyres. Polish metal bits. Can achieve a lot for not too many pennies. And I think well-fitted chormoplastic mudguards look the biz on classic road bike frames.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. Smudge
    Member

    "And much much nicer than a boring black Surly... :P "

    OI! I had a BL beige Mini many years ago and decided the only thing wrong with it was the colour, I see no reason to inflict that scheme on a bike ;-P

    My Surly LHT isn't boring anyway :-) but it is *very* practical ;-)
    (and covered in about 1,500 miles worth of muck now, I really must clean it sometime :-/ )

    There are pictures of it somewhere on the CCE flickr page or I can bring it to a PY sometime (after next week) if you want to see it for some ideas, or if you just want to chat bikes, for this week only, nip down to Castle Street through the day and near the big gun ask the Artillerymen for Smudge ;-)
    (goes for any CCE'ers, please say hello, it's rapidly becoming a tiresome job down there!)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I hadn't realised you were there, wandered past today! Are you in the full on combat kit??? Tis a ruddy big tank you've got - I promise not to diss your Surly ever again.

    Min's is still fair game though... :P

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. Smudge
    Member

    Yup I'm there, and dressed in green/brown. The "tank" is not mine, (and btw it is a very small tank! In fact it's only an APC/AFV and not actually a tank ;-))
    Stop by next time and I'll explain :-)

    Oh and no dissing Min's Surly, 'tis a very nice machine (and not beige ;-) ;-P )

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. Min
    Member

    Quite right too!

    "I think I'll go with crowriver's plan at first; test the water by tinkering with the racer and if I turn out to be any use then I'll build from frame, but if I turn out to be the equivalent of Homer Simpson trying to make a bowl of cornflakes(they went on fire) then plan B will be buying one of the models suggested above. "

    That sounds like a plan! I managed to rebuild an old bike mostly myself a wee while ago an am very pleased with it. I have never set a bowl of conrnflakes on fire though..

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. Uberuce
    Member

    After giving it a good scrub down, there's still an alarmingly gritty feel to the chain and rear wheel(when freewheeling - is that the cassette?), although it's definitely benefitted.

    The biggest inhibiting factors for getting too carried away with working on it is that it's still my sister's and she reserves the right to ask for it back, and the frame's a size too small.

    I'll get some mudguards onnit pronto, though; the brakes are indeed single pivot oldies.

    My Dad lent me his Falcon Meridian hybrid until I decide what to do, and it's not fun to ride, unlike the racer. I have it out today since it was wet early, but now the troll weather's gone all nice.

    The tyres were replaced in 2004 with Schwalbe ones that look in good shape; brake pads I've replaced myself already.

    I presume this is a n00bscum question, but can you do a quick and easily reversible singlespeed conversion by removing the derailleurs and adjusting the chain's length? I think I'm due a new chain anyway and as it happens the chainline on the gear I've been using exclusively is pretty much straight.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Depends on if you can hit on the 'magic gear'.

    Basically you need the chain to be reasonably tight. If you have forward facing, or rear facing dropouts that the rear wheel fits into then the wheel can move backwards and forwards to take up slack. If they are 'vertical' (the wheel slots stright up into the frame) then unless the chain is a 'perfect' length for the gear combination then you need a chain tensioner (which is basically just like a derailleur but with only one jockey wheel).

    Would be better if I had a picture of a set-up I ran for a short time to show what I mean...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  27. Uberuce
    Member

    Oh, forgot to mention that, mea culpa; yes, it's horizontal forward facign dropouts. I read about that when doing my homework last night.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    there's still an alarmingly gritty feel to the chain and rear wheel

    I assume if the bike is that age then it may be too old to have a freehub. The "gritty" feeling will be the bearings in either the rear hub or the freewheel (or freehub). I don't know much about freewheels, but if it's the bearings in the hub you might get away with regreasing if the bearings aren't worn. If they are worn and damaged they are replacable - unless the surfaces of the hub are worn in which case you probably to replace the lot. If you can't be bothered / aren't confident most bike shops will do a hub service for not too much.

    As anth says, you need to get the chain tensioned on a single speed otherwise the chain is liable to fly off (and you lose a lot of the efficiency). You do this by either sliding the wheel fore/aft on horizontal dropouts or track ends (which you won't have).Looking at photos of Raleigh Record Sprints, it looks like you have the former, so are unlikely to need a tensioner. You will want to bolt the wheel in with tracknuts, rather than use a quick release, otherwise you're likely to find you pull the wheel forward and slacken the chain and rub the tyre on the paint.

    You can buy kits to convert the wheel to a singlespeed, basically some spacers and a freewheel sprocket so you can get the freewheel lined up nicely with the front cog. Most single speed / fixies use wider BMX-type chain, I think because it's meant to be more up to the job of taking the stresses of having it permanently tight in a big gear. Also, it looks cooler.

    I suppose you have to work out how much you want / are willing to spend, as you can get a decent fixed/single speed new for about £400 (Specialized Langster, Revolution Track, Genesis DayOne etc.) The vintage frame still looks more the part though :) If you go the full way, you could get a proper track wheel (with no dish in the spokes) with freewheel hub (or a flip flop. Or a fixed), a single cog cranket up front and new (and wider) chain.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    By the way here's a good diagram to describe difference of freehub / freewheel;


    (click for big / full)

    You'll need a chain whip and a big spanner to get the cassette off.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  30. crowriver
    Member

    @Uberuce, you were actually looking for good advice, weren't you? Not bad as you said. :-)

    This gritty feel to the drivetrain could be the bearings in the rear hub, or it could be the bottom bracket, or it could be your chain is dry or a bit slack/stretched.

    Try taking the back wheel off, hold the axle in both hands and spin the wheel. If it sounds or feels grindy, the hub needs to be serviced or replaced. If it's fine, check the cranks while you have the chain off the rear cogs. Spin the pedals: any play or grinding? Try and determine if it's the bottom bracket or the pedals where the issue is. If they're fine, it's probably your chain, or maybe the cogs are worn...

    Posted 13 years ago #

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