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Aqueduct etiquette

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  1. rbrtwtmn
    Member

    My friend and I did it (cycled ON the canal) too. Same day or thereabouts I'm sure. Very glad I did too. My wife was horrified at first... but we'd thought very very carefully about it and even assessed what tools for rescue we were carrying.

    To be clear for anyone who wasn't in Edinburgh in 2010 - it had been VERY cold for substantial period. Don't try this on a normal Edinburgh winter! I don't suppose anyone can remember another year this was sensible. Would be interested to know if there was one.

    Like the letter. Two people pushing bikes cause much more risk of an upset then one riding (and paused) and one pushing. The only think I worry about is whether anyone checked the integrity of the railing when I lean on it...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    1998(ish)

    1986(ish)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. gembo
    Member

    Came over the aqueduct this morning, giving way to several, being allowed past by one fellow cyclist. Made it to almost the east end of the cobbles when came across one almightly tailback. Frankly, I thought they could have let me off but then they had been waiting a while. COuld not figure it until I did get off the cobbles at which point a chap reached into the canal with one haND And pulled out his bike. He had quick drying mountain bike stylee baggy lycra.

    I stopped to check he was OK. He was quite sanguine. Said someone was coming very fast in the other direction.

    So swims can occur at either end or indeed the middle I guess.

    I did ask one of the cycling officers of CEC - What is to be done? He said I Am The Walrus (VI Lenin Donny, not John Lennon.

    Cyclists Please COnsider Fellow Cyclists and
    Other Users of the Shared Path?

    Once I found evidence that someone had taken their horse over the aqueduct? THat seems risky to me, but maybe they dismounted?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. AKen
    Member

    Once I found evidence that someone had taken their horse over the aqueduct? THat seems risky to me, but maybe they dismounted?

    The 'evidence' was on the path for several days! I know that the towpath was built for horses but I would be very nervous about passing a horse on a path as narrow as this one - wouldn't be ideal for anyone with small children running about or on bikes/scooters.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. wingpig
    Member

    "Once I found evidence that someone had taken their horse over the aqueduct?"

    Seems quite fair, on a towpath.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. Dave
    Member

    Provided they were towing.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. gembo
    Member

    this morning there was an outbreak of civility and pleasantry on the aqueduct. Fairly busy on the way across but I stopped for some people to push past, others stopped for me everyone charming and airy. Maybe it's the Friday feeling?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Contractors are being sought for a wide-ranging repair prog­ramme which covers all five of the country’s man-made inland waterways.

    The massive programme by Scottish Canals is expected to include the refurbishment of bridges, towpaths and embankments.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/scottish-canal-network-to-get-35m-upgrade-1-3878907

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. gembo
    Member

    Forth and Clyde
    Union
    Caledonian
    crinan
    And errr, Monklamds ( the corrupt canal?)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. Tulyar
    Member

    @greenroofer's comment on signage goes counter to the tenets of good practice, with a huge amount of verbage to digest.

    Might I suggest learning from the Hong Kong Highway Code and responding to the re consultation on the traffic signs manual (TSRGD) in the next month.

    For the canal I think we can safely accept that the movement of a pedestrian has priority over all other modes of transport on the towpath. That is to recognise that when a moving cyclist catches up with a moving pedestrian the pedestrian is given the opportunity to move through bridge holes and around restricted sections and the cyclist allows that movement to take place before overtaking or continuing on after the pedestrian has passed. Ar reguklar intervals the pedestrian priority signs can be repeated by way of a reminder

    At the Aqueduct, as well as pedestrian priority there can be a clear directional priority, perhaps dictated by the strong possibility that the flow of cyclists in to the city in the morning might be the one which would be best prioritised. the existing digns used for roads might even be appropriate with an additional information plate indicating that Westbound cyclists should yield or stop if necessary to permit the passage of Eastbound traffic, although I do realise that this could, if the conventions of passing right to right are applied leave the Westbound cyclist stopping at the canal edge rather than the wall side. there may need to be some review on the safer option there.

    Simple and perhaps the answer?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    "Simple"

    Sadly no.

    "I think we can safely accept that the movement of a pedestrian has priority over all other modes of transport on the towpath"

    If you mean CCEers, perhaps.

    If you mean all current users then clearly not.

    Scottish Canals' 'solution' - cyclists must dismount - clearly isn't working, and is likely to be making things worse.

    Similar signs have been tried over the years.

    Best if they are all removed and some thought put into a better system/sign.

    A bigger problem is lack of consideration on other parts of the towpath, often (but not always) by people cycling too fast.

    There was a time when bikes were banned altogether (or were supposed to have s permit). That is no longer the case. 'Demanding' that cyclists dismount has also had its day.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    Perhaps time to revive/revise this -

    http://www.politecycling.info/edinburgh.html

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. Greenroofer
    Member

    @Tulyar - I'm sure the wording could be made simpler, although Scottish Canals have other signs elsewhere on the towpath that are about as long as my proposal. They don't seem too worried about using lots of words to tell cyclists what to do...

    It's all a slightly moot point, though because so far I've not had a peep out of them in response to my message (not even a 'thanks for your email, it's under consideration'). I'll give them a prod...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. gembo
    Member

    @tulyar another issue is that the flow of traffic. In the morning, once you are over the aqueduct is as you say more west East. However, the flow of those who actually cross the aqueduct is maybe fifty fifty? The commute to Herriot watt and the bank HQ quite high whereas the density of population thins out beyond slate ford ( excluding wester hailed where sadly few people cycle).

    Traffic lights would be funny but then you would definitely get RLJing

    Yesterday aqueduct very busy and everyone very polite. That is 3 polite to 2 impolite days since I started counting last week.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. lorlane
    Member

    yesterday morning I was crossing the aqueduct, and was verbally abused by a man because I hadn't completely dismounted. I was called ignorant and selfish and all manner of insults.
    Totally uncalled for.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. wingpig
    Member

    Hmm. The problem with my earlier suggestion of hinged pontoons is that miscreants could lie in wait for someone to head to the south bank then prevent passage back, whilst throwing potatoes or eggs or whatever is fashionable as a ned-missile days. You'd need a set on each side so that no-one could become trapped.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. neddie
    Member

    Looks like Scottish Canals have £35m for upgrades to the canal, bridges and towpath.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/scottish-canal-network-to-get-35m-upgrade-1-3878907

    Might be time to campaign for widened towpaths, improved signage, etc. in the busy sections

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "

    @SpokesLothian: Soon: #Canal & #towpath upgrades http://t.co/IErPBaHQFW Tweet yr ideas to @MillarRichard. Photo c/o @TartanBikeTours http://t.co/MWmJrJUrhz

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. Greenroofer
    Member

    @lorlane - does the guy who was calling you ignorant have a bicyle? Does he wear an orange jacket? I ask because the grumpy guy I mentioned a few days ago called me ignorant too (and a lot of other things). I saw him on the aqueduct this morning, but luckily it was before I'd joined, so I waited for him to come off before I went on. He was bumping his gums about the guy riding behind him, and very pointedly stopped right at the end of the aqueduct to remount, so that the guy behind him had to stop too.

    Now I'm very conscious that anyone can read what we post here. So if you're reading this and recognise yourself in the portrait of the 'grumpy guy', please know that I am genuinely sorry that you feel as strongly about this as you do. I hope there's some way that you can come to accept that other people have a different view to you about this, and that perhaps, in the grand scheme of things, this particular issue isn't one that it's worth upsetting yourself or others over. I'd be glad to talk to you about why I feel the way I do about cycling across the aqueduct, and perhaps also to discuss other things that you might want to get involved in trying to change for cyclists.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. neddie
    Member

    @lorlane

    Or, does the guy who was verbally abusing you meet this description:?

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10640#post-184541

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. Rabid Hamster
    Member

    Towpaths were originally built for horses and humans to 'tow' barges and lighters, ergo they get priority, bicycles 3rd place!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "bicycles 3rd place!"

    That's fine but 'making' people dismount isn't working.

    Don't think anyone (on here) is saying 'I want to ride across and peds MUST give way'.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. Snowy
    Member

    Let's face facts, 'cyclists dismount' signage is almost always a knee-jerk unthinking 'solution' and is seldom the right answer.

    I find that "Pedestrian priority. Cycles give way." works as a good guiding principle for the whole route, not just the aqueduct.

    People tend to naturally keep left but you have to allow for those who aren't comfortable walking or cycling on the water's edge, which is fair enough, so it probably shouldn't be 'advised' by signage.

    I saw a pedestrian the other day grab the railings and stonework for the whole traverse of the aqueduct - I don't think they'll be back...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. lorlane
    Member

    @Greenroofer - Yes! I also saw him again this morning but at the Slateford Rd aqueduct and he was hurtling along (headed East) at quite a speed. Didn't give me much clearance and I had a bit of a wobble before ending up in someone else's path and we clipped front wheels...

    Apologies again to that person. He couldn't have been nicer, despite the fact I was very much the cause of our collision!

    I appreciate people have different viewpoints on dismounting but there is no need to become abusive or aggressive about it.

    @edd1e_h - No, not him. I think I may have spotted this person but not at the aqueduct thankfully.

    It can't be nice going around with all that anger inside. Thankfully 99% of the people we encounter along the canal are cheerful and pleasant.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    "I was very much the cause of our collision!"

    Not really.

    "quite a speed. Didn't give me much clearance"

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. Greenroofer
    Member

    @lorlane, you were probably 100 yards behind me this morning then, because I met him coming off the aqueduct.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. Moose
    Member

    Another dunkee to report this morning, at around 9am at the west end. The chap said he was nudged off into the water...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. lorlane
    Member

    @greenroofer, Could explain the dynamics of the hurtler closely followed by my collidee...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. Greenroofer
    Member

    Just had a reply from Scottish Canals to my suggestion about signage...

    "Hi Greenroofer,

    Thanks for your email – and apologies for the delay in response.

    We undertake a regular review of our signage, particularly around areas of high use and potential conflict such as Slateford Aqueduct, and will discuss your suggestions with our health and safety and operations teams. As you say, encouraging responsible use and minimising risk amongst towpath users is our key aim and you make some very valid points – especially regarding the issue of user priority. We’ll be sure and take them on board at the next signage review.

    I’d also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your comments on Twitter. With 137 miles of towpath to maintain and limited resources with which to do so, knowing which areas to focus our attention on is always useful. As I hope you’ll agree, our operational teams always endeavour to respond promptly to any issues highlighted.

    If you would like to discuss this matter further, or have any other ideas or suggestions for how we can improve the towpaths of Scotland’s canals, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.

    With very best wishes,

    A. Canal Person"

    So it's under 'active consideration'...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. jdanielp
    Member

    @Greenroofer a voluntary position as towpath tsar beckons.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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