CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Warning - the stupid cones layout at Haymarket is back

(57 posts)

12

  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Noticed this morning that the stupid (and dangerous) contraflow at Haymarket has returned. If you are going from Morrison Street towards Roseburn, keep out of the cycle lane at the lights.

    The cycle lane (which has A8 and alarge arrow painted in it, and is not for use by cyclists heading to Dalry) is not coned off. The lane to the right of it is (inside lane for Roseburn).

    It is not immediately obvious as you wait at the lights at the bottom of Morrison Street, but If you stick in the cycle lane, as you usually would, you will find that you cannot carry straight on, but are forced round into Dalry, at which point you find yourself on the wrong side of the traffic to your left.

    There is no indication that the cycle lane is a dead end - for once, they should have coned it off.

    Will Clarence.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. maxmanders
    Member

    Couldn't agree more, I got caught out by this a few days ago too. It's made worse by the bus diversions around the Princes Street area as traffic seems to be backed up all the way to Haymarket in some cases. Keep your wits about you!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. alibali
    Member

    Yes, while not too bad with stationary traffic it requires riding down a 1m wide canyon formed by buses and lorries followed by easing into traffic which is squeezing down from 3 lanes into two.

    As kaputnik says, some form of warning would be welcome to say the least!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. Arellcat
    Moderator

    It sounds like a good case for a Brompton (or other similarly small-wheeled bike) with fixie handlebars. Actually, it sounds like a good case to stay the heck away from there altogether!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Will Clarence was my intention, not my new moniker.

    Have Clarenced.

    Clarence should be a verb, just like Google is. Seem to use it equally often these days.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. wingpig
    Member

    I keep meaning to start a "Clarenced" thread, noting when things have been reported so that other people can keep an eye out for the issue's resolution (if the reporting entity perhaps doesn't pass the thing they reported very often).

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "I keep meaning to start a "Clarenced" thread"

    Please do!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "
    BCCletts:
    @edintravel Cyclists warning of dangerous termination of cycle lane at Haymarket leaves cyclists limited space to merge with other traffic

    Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/BCCletts/status/117495649859145728

    "

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    on_lothianbuses Lothian Buses
    @maxmanders @CyclingEdin That's good to hear! Thanks.
    Sep 28, 9:45 AM via web
    In reply to…

    maxmanders Max Manders
    @CyclingEdin the Haymarket junction is crazy at the moment! @on_lothianbuses drivers doing great re cyclists!
    Sep 27, 5:59 PM via Twitter for iPhone

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. kaputnik
    Moderator

    No change has yet been made to the contraflow layout. It is very stupid and very dangerous. I pulled over to the right in the ASL this morning so that I didn't have to cut across the traffic behind as soon as lights changed, only to find a taxi appear on my left in the ASL box and then try and squeeze me out from that direction as lights changed. It has gone from being 2 car lanes and 1 cycle lane in this direction to one car lane only.

    A cool head and some authoritative hand gestures were required to deal with this particular moron.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. Stepdoh
    Member

    Thanks for the tip off about this troops, saved my skin this morning when trying to navigate it in my fuzzy brained new baby state.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    Emailed the 3 City Centre ward councillors about an hour ago -

    "
    Thanks for the email - there are some other outstanding issues regarding the layouts at Haymarket which are being dealt with by the Transport Department and I will send your email on and ask them to ensure that the layout of this cycle lane is dealt with. If there isn't any difference by next week please get back in contact.

    Regards

    Joanna Mowat  

    Councillor Joanna Mowat
    Conservative Councillor for City Centre Ward

    "

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin


    The reality of Haymarket


    Haymarket


    But definitely not first class


    Where to go?


    Yes, that's a 'works' car parked on the left


    Look out!


    Pedestrian route(?)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Yes, that's a 'works' car parked on the left

    Yes had a chat with cyclist yesterday morning about how the sum total of the efforts at Haymarket appears to have been to create a works car park (they had orange lights on the roof).

    Both cyclists in your photos are doing what you would noramlly do here, and as a result, both are in completely the wrong place. Cyclist in fluorescent jacket will have to try and work his way through cones into single lane of moving traffic.

    Cyclist in front of 12 bus will have to cut right across the bus into same lane as red car to make the turn.

    The stupidity and complete and utter lack of thought of this arrangement is quite staggering.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    "
    SpokesLothian:

    @CyclingEdin Re #Haymarket, no consolation but could be worse (permanently) cycling Morrison St to A8 once tramlines in!  No ideal solution?

    Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/SpokesLothian/status/119145358596128770

    "

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    LOTS of examples of how other places deal with bikes and trams -

    http://www.altaplanning.com/App_Content/files/pres_stud_docs/Bicycle_Streetcar_Memo.pdf

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. DdF
    Member

    "LOTS of examples of how other places deal with bikes and trams -"

    Yes, totally agree, but such places tend to include bike planning in tramline planning from the outset. In Edinburgh's case it was a 'tram-only' project, not an integrated transport project, and so most of the detailed onstreet layout of the tramline locations was done before considering bike travel. Thus cycling had to be fitted around that subsequently - and in some places (e.g Haymarket from Morrison St to A8) it is now probably impossible to do in a manner which is both convenient and completely safe.

    History: Spokes tried at an early stage to get a more holistic approach, even bringing over a Dutch tram/bike planning consultant, but his recommendations were rejected. His 2008 report, and other relevant documents, are at http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/documents/public-transport/tram/

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "
    I've seen Joanna's reply to you and I'll do all that I can to back up her request for a solution from the roads department.

    Charles
    Cllr. Charles Dundas
    Scottish Liberal Democrats
    City Centre Ward

    "

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. MeepMeep
    Member

    "there are some other outstanding issues regarding the layouts at Haymarket which are being dealt with by the Transport Department"

    What? Like the fact the lights seemed completely out of sync yesterday afternoon?

    I don't regularly travel this way as I live and work out by Corstorphine/the Gyle, but this is the second time this week I've cycled through Haymarket and both experiences were hairy. Makes me worry for those who cycle it daily.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "I've cycled through Haymarket and both experiences were hairy. Makes me worry for those who cycle it daily."

    I was there from about 20 to 5 'til about 5:10.

    Reasonable number of bikes in 1s, 2s and 3s until 5:00.

    Seems that commuters by bike either leave early, work late or are avoiding this route!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. SRD
    Moderator

    what percentage of the workforce actually does a 9-5 job anymore?

    I've always suspected that a lot of cycle commuters work something more like 8-4, given the number of bikes on otherwise quiet roads that i see at that time of day.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. steveo
    Member

    I'm generally in early (0820ish) to get a shower and by the time I get changed and get out the garage its pushing half five even if I some how manage to get away from my desk at 5!

    However I go round the top way (Fountainbridge) to avoid Morrison Street have done for nearly a year now since they started the work at the EICC.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "I've always suspected that a lot of cycle commuters work something more like 8-4"

    Perhaps, but the increase in pedestrians around 5 (all over the road - literally) was very noticeable.

    Most going to station so more difficult to avoid the area.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I've not been cycling this week for various reasons, and so haven't been to Haymarket to see/photograph the situation firsthand. I'm tempted to go on foot with camera-on-pole.

    I'm wondering if motorists are finding the layout confusing? It sounds like this is the type of situation when cyclists really ought to use primary position and only primary, regardless of their speed or prevailing assertiveness. Presumably pedestrians are considered suitably manoeuverable that they can find their own way around the maze of cones. :-/

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. alibali
    Member

    I generally hit this junction (if that's the right word) about 0810 and share the ASL space with one or two other cyclists, not counting the individual that just goes straight through the lights/cones/traffic/pavements to get to Grosvenor Street, so it's quite busy then.

    So far I've managed to get in front of the lead car/bus/truck and block their passage until I get to Haymarket station. Lothian buses seem happy to go along with this, which is helpful. Others, not so much...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    Good to know about this. Back on the bike for the first time in a week and would easily have got caught out if I hadn't known.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  27. DaveC
    Member

    Sitting in Haymarket st just now waiting on my train. Thanks for all the advice. Tonight I just merged with queuing traffic at the lights. the driver in front didn't appear to know the layout so he was actually holding me up rathercthan the other way round.

    Dave C

    Posted 13 years ago #

  28. Bhachgen
    Member

    Looks like they're putting back some of the diversions in the area as I noticed new line painting on Magdala Cres this evening. Appears Magdala Cres will be northbound only so I'm guessing eastbound traffic from Roseburn will be diverted that way again.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    "

    edintravel: Clifton Terrace, Haymarket (message 1 of 2). Road closed citybound from Sat 1st Oct for tram works. Expected duration 7 months. #edintravel

    edintravel: Clifton Terrace (2 of 2) Diversion: buses via Rosebery Cresc (http://t.co/VH6l3Jey) General traffic via Magdala Cresc (http://t.co/1wcGln8b)
    Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/edintravel/status/119734604709109760

    "

    Posted 13 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Noticed this morning that the pedestrian footway on south side of Haymarket Terrace has been relocated to the concrete platform for the tram stop. There had been a slight re-arrangement of cones outside the station, but the problem area has not been touched.

    Problem at the lights was compounded by 2 Airlink busses sitting nose-to-tail at lights, with first bus sitting completely in ASL box. I elected to cross the line and sit between ASL and the studs for the pedestrian crossing, so at least that way I was infront of bus and in drivers line of sight, and not sitting in his blind spot on the left.

    Posted 13 years ago #

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